Tracy Lapreziosa (00:12):
Hello, everyone. This is Tracy Lapreziosa from Networks for Training and Development Incorporated. This is a continuation of our communication series. Today's podcast is on AT and communication where four of our Network staff are gonna share our stories and experiences with AT and communication for ourselves, and with others. So, again, my name is Tracy and I'm part of the Networks team. I'm an occupational therapist and I'm the team lead for Adaptations for Living.

Jessica Stover (00:45):
Hey, everyone, Jessica Stover, also with Networks. Currently I'm the Director of Training and Consultation. Previously to that, I had Tracy's role where I was overseeing that particular team surrounding Assistive Technologies. And, happy to be with you guys today.

Joe Murphy (01:05):
Hey, how are you? This is Joe Murphy, Networks for Training and Development. I'm our Employment and Transition Coordinator. Presently, I'm doing a lot of our employment training. In the past, I did a lot of our employment and technology, but also looking at communication systems for people and the way that people said yes, no, and talked, and, uh, got their voice across on.

Rosa McAllister (01:24):
Hi, everybody. I'm Rosa McAllister, pulling up the tail-end of our foursome here. I am the co-founder and the Organizational Advisor for Networks for Training and Development. And, I was part of the initial team as we got started taking a look at Assistive Technology or AT and communication differences, uh, that people have, and how we might help them. And, I'm doing a lot of other things now these days, but still occasionally have my hand in our Assistive Technology work.

Tracy Lapreziosa (01:55):
Okay, welcome everyone. And, I'd just like to start out just talking a little bit about technology and how it's progressed over the years, how we've seen it progress, and the new opportunities that we have seen. And for me, having been a therapist, the one thing that sticks out for me with Assistive Technology and communication having been a therapist for like, four decades, is looking at how I communicated with people, and getting myself organized, getting myself, uh, set up for appointments and things. And I think about how I started, and I think primarily about the phone. I mean, we've all seen tremendous advances in technology with the phones.

(02:37):
You know, when I was a kid, we had the rotary phone and tethered, and slide it under the door, lay on the floor in my room. But then, you know, we had the touch tone phones and the long cords, and the cordless phones. But when I started my career and I had to like, reach out to people, I always had to reach out to people from either an office or my home. And, if I'd be out on the road and I'd get stuck somewhere, and I get lost, I'd had to drive around and find a phone booth so that I could get out of my car, and call wherever I was going to get the directions, make sure I was heading in the right place. And technology has really afforded me, it's been such a time saver.

(03:15):
You know, we went from the bag phones in our cars to now our cell phones that go everywhere with us, and we don't even have phone booths anymore. And it's so easy, at the touch of a button, you can get a hold of the person that you're trying to see or you're trying to connect with. It's like, instant gratification, whereas before it wasn't like that at all. We can leave messages, we couldn't leave messages. So, there's been so much development in the four decades of my career that it's just been phenomenal. And I'm sure that everyone else has some other stories of how the progression of technology has made your life easier, whether it be for work or social things.

Joe Murphy (03:53):
We're sitting here recording this on May 6th, 2021. So, we're in the middle of a pandemic, a global pandemic, right? So, over the last year and, what, two months now, my kid's been virtual schooled or he's now back to school part-time. But, that was never possible before a couple years ago. At Networks, we've worked remotely for a long time. This isn't new for us. But still, my wife's working from home. Those technologies was never there, or was there, but it wasn't taken advantage of, I should say. We're in a technology boom and it's not just for folks with disabilities, but it's for all of us.

(04:30):
And, the folks that we love and support over the years have really led this effort for us (laughs), and some of the stuff that was out there for them, as people were trying to develop for supports for them, we're all taking advantage of. And, they were the people that led the way for where we're at today in 2021.

Jessica Stover (04:47):
Agreed. I mean, I was thinking back, kinda the big game changer was when, frankly, the very first iPhone came out and they were just like, this amazing kind of thing, like, "What is this? How do you use this? It's just this flat surface and I touch it?" I'm like, "I miss my flip phone." I miss my little Nokia that was a tank, you know, you could, that thing... I found my old Nokia, it was like, 25 years old. The darn thing still worked phenomenal. The iPhone, the tablets that came shortly thereafter, it was a real game changer. Because prior to that, even in terms of [inaudible 00:05:21] and alternative communication for folks, you had the Dynavoxes, you had [inaudible 00:05:26].

(05:26):
You had these really big names and they were utilizing the touch screen technology, but it wasn't something that was really available to everyone or people didn't see it as something that they needed, or wanted to use, or it was only a specialized whatever. Now, everyone and their brother it seems uses touch screen technologies. Whereas before, it just wasn't a thing or it wasn't for someone on the street to use.

Rosa McAllister (05:50):
Absolutely. I was thinking very similarly. And Joe, I love how you brought up about how people with disabilities really led the charge here with so many things. I like to tell the tale of Siri, who many of us know if we've used Apple products. And that came from some of the old development work with voice activation and voice, mechanized voice it was originally called, in some of these other older communication devices that Jess mentioned. And how many of us now today use Siri to give us directions, Alexa in our homes, or all of these other things? All of that came from the technology that people with disabilities, if they were lucky, had access to.

Tracy Lapreziosa (06:31):
And I was just reading today about something one of our other team members shared in an email, an article, and about how audiobooks, you know, we all listen to audiobooks now and we all listen to podcasts. And that was something that came out of the work for accessibility for the blind.

Rosa McAllister (06:47):
Yup. It's just commonplace. You know, the same thing, Jess and I years ago tried to outfit an office up in Northumberland County, Pennsylvania. We didn't just try, we did it. And we tried to have it as a model apartment to show people how every day things could make it accessible. And again, it was Home Depot and Radio Shack, and Bed, Bath, & Beyond started offering things like spatulas and all kinds of different things, motion-sensitive lights, that were just becoming commonplace market items that previously you had to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars to hard wire a house to do these things if you had disabilities, and couldn't reach up to pull a plug or a- a pull chain for a light, or flip a switch, or something like that.

(07:35):
And nowadays, I mean, you think of a supermarket. When was the last time you went into a store or a market, or a hotel that didn't have automatic doors? And if you run into that, we're outraged. Like, "My hands are full, how dare you?" And yet, that all came from our brothers, our sisters, our friends who had disabilities. And now, it's every day stuff for all of us.

Tracy Lapreziosa (07:57):
So when we're thinking about our technology, like how do, how do y'all choose your tech? I mean, how do you, when you're trying to choose between product A and product B, do you choose the thing that's more comfortable because it's older tech and easier to use? Or, do you choose something that's the newest and the greatest? Or, how do you make that decision? I'm kind of old school and I was kinda slow on the tech, so I usually tend to choose the older tech that I'm more comfortable with and try to expand from there. But I know I'm a minority, I think.

Jessica Stover (08:25):
I am not an early adopter by any stretch of the imagination. Early on, I think I kinda was and then things would be like, glitchy, I'm like, "Oh, it's not working." Or I was saying earlier on a di-, in a different conversation, all of a sudden my calendar on my phone would disappear and it would be gone for hours. And I would have no idea what was going on or what happened the day before 'cause I didn't have my calendar. So, I mean, for me personally, I'm not an early adopter. And when prepping, and getting ready for this, I started even thinking, so how does that effect folks that I get asked to be invited into the team to support?

(09:00):
Like, so, does that like, effect how I help them think about technology too? Like, sometimes the snazziest, bright, shiny new thing isn't always a fit for folks. And I know it isn't a fit for me, but for different reasons just because I think it's gonna be too glitchy early on. The brand new thing's always gonna have bugs in it, so I'm gonna wait until it's around for a while and everyone else gets to work through the (laughs) difficulties with it.

Joe Murphy (09:27):
See, I think I take a more financial approach to it. It's what I can afford is what it all comes down to. If I can afford the brand new iPhone 85 that's coming out next month, I would buy it in a heartbeat, but I can't sometimes. Sometimes I can. If I can buy a new automatic front door lock where I don't have to put a key in, I just put my fingerprint or voice activate it, I would love it and I've looked into some stuff. They have technology I need for my mom's house. We looked into some more expensive stuff and maybe, but hopefully it'll come down soon and prices do come down. I can be patient. So, I

Joe Murphy (10:00):
... want the new stuff, but I also know it's gotta be practical what I can afford. Luckily, I have a real nice computer. I gotta ask my work. Work when I want it and I got, what, top of the line computer. I like my Microsoft Surface. I love my touch pad. Comes off as a, uh, tablet and everything, but everything else, I'm an Apple person, except for my computer.

Tracy Lapreziosa (10:16):
(laughs).

Rosa McAllister (10:16):
Yeah. And that's interesting 'cause I guess I kinda slope between and I'm the old head here and, (laughs), I'm the one that never learned to type and all that kinda stuff and would never in a billion years think of myself as a techy person 20 years ago.

(10:31):
But I became a techy person and I really like the bright and shiny and sparkly new stuff. I'm, like, marketing dream in that they show me the bright and shinies and I get all excited. "Ooh. I think I want that. I think that's gonna be better than the other that I currently have."

(10:46):
But then I get into, and this has been more recently, I've gotten way more into, kind of, a cross between what all of the rest of you said where I'm teased by the bright and shiny and the new, flashy, whatevers, but I also get into we're such a disposable society. We throw things out that still have a perfectly good life and are perfectly usable. And honestly, the downtime that occurs when you switch over to something bright and shiny and new, it's pretty high sometimes, that curve, even though it offers so much more whatever.

(11:19):
So, I kinda flip between. I am a techy. I like it. I love learning about and seeing what's coming down the pike and getting teased by it. But I also often times have to stop myself and think, "Come on, Rosa. Do you really need that? Like, your toaster is perfectly fine. Do you need a toaster that has extra sensors and extra whatevers?" and no. When my toaster finally goes, then maybe I'll go for something new and the same with the phone and the computer and everything else. But I do like and most of it, I do like being teased by the good stuff, the new stuff.

Tracy Lapreziosa (11:55):
It always looks so great, but then I'm always, like, concerned about, "Well, the more computer chips it has in it-"

Rosa McAllister (12:00):
(laughs).

Tracy Lapreziosa (12:00):
"... the more opportunities there are for things to go wrong." Like, we've been out recently looking at refrigerators. It blows your mind that you can have you calendar on your refrigerator-

Rosa McAllister (12:09):
(laughs).

Tracy Lapreziosa (12:09):
... electronic pictures and it'll show you what's in your refrigerator and that's way beyond me. I want something that does the basic thing 'cause sometimes we, kind of, jump ahead of ourselves and get things that seem great and then we get them and especially for me, my problem is I read the directions, I can't always get it from the directions that they send you, and I'm Googling and I finally get, like, eh. Even just with the TV, trying to figure out the TV. All the three remotes on the TV and all of that and the fire stick and it's, like, finally, it's just like, "I'm not- I don't need to watch a movie. Forget about it." (laughs).

(12:46):
I have a tendency to jump ahead of myself and I feel like I never get the right training. My kids don't live close to give me the tutorials. They're all up on it and I'm not. So, I have a hard time figuring out that kinda stuff out.

(12:58):
So what happens when you jump ahead what you're able to handle?

Rosa McAllister (13:01):
Sometimes it's a great thing. Sometimes it's an opportunity to learn or try something new. Jess, you were talking about the flip phones. I never had a flip phone, but I had a PalmPilot I had from the early days of the PalmPilot. And I was one of the first ones they actually sent me because I had had several other models of PalmPilots. They sent me an opportunity to be a beta tester for one that had this thing called wifi.

Tracy Lapreziosa (13:25):
(laughs).

Rosa McAllister (13:26):
And so, my PalmPilot had this little antenna on the side that tucked down and I would lift it up, Joe, you might remember, and I'd be searching in the sky for a signal and I'd get half a signal or something and then it was like, "Ah! Stop everything, I have this."

(13:41):
But it was the beginning of when I could get email on my phone and I could get this and I was traveling so much. That was back in the day when I was driving between 30 and 50,000 miles a year. And it gave me the opportunity to stay in touch and to do so much more.

(13:59):
I also think I had this voice recorder, this digital voice recorder that I saw someone else use and all I had to do, like, after I would visit with someone for a assistive technology or communication appointment, all I would have to do is I'd drive couple of blocks away and I'd pull out my digital voice recorder, which was, I dunno, maybe three or four inches tall, and I would record my notes on there. And I'd learn to do it in such a way and then later that night in a hotel, all I had to do was sit it next to my computer and using voice recognition software on my computer, it took my notes. And I know all I had to do was go in and edit it a little bit. It was amazing and I know I probably went on and on far too much to everybody near me about the miracles of this, but it saved me so much time in taking notes and doing other things.

(14:52):
So, sometimes, it's, like, these bright and shinies really are amazing. Really, really do live up to and beyond what they can do. Sometime, like, my PalmPilot with the wifi antenna didn't work so great, but it was a cool toy and it brought me into the next step and brought us all technology-wise into the next step of what was to come.

Tracy Lapreziosa (15:15):
So have any of you ever purchased something just because it was cool and then did not find it particularly useful? You went for the bright and shiny, but you got it and it wasn't so bright and shiny?

Joe Murphy (15:27):
Well, I'd go back to my practic- home with money sometimes. (laughs). I bought my kid a GoPro when it first came out, so we bought GoPros. I like to ski. I like to surf. He likes to surf. I like to be in the ocean down the shore, down the Jersey Shore and I tried to go the opposite way and go a little cheaper with a cheaper GoPro, the older version and it was the worst thing ever. It was the worst $200 investment I ever made. Instead of spending $100 for a brand new one that had wifi, that you could see what you were recording, this was the original GoPro where you had to do either ski the mountain, then go back to your computer and download all the video, so you never saw what you were recording until afterwards.

(16:03):
And I hated that. I hated that I messed up, that I was being cheap. Instead of getting a bright and shiny, I got the older version and I- when I was planning the bright and shiny the next we went skiing and we brought the new GoPro. So now I have two GoPros, one just sits there and collects dust. (laughs).

Jessica Stover (16:18):
I got, this is when they first came out, the Xbox 360s. All my friends had an X- I'm like, "I have to have an Xbox 360." Not really thinking ahead. Jess, you're really not a gamer. You really don't really play a lot of video games, but dang it, I had to have that Xbox 360. Not also thinking ahead, those games are expensive and the accessories are expensive. So, we had two video games for our Xbox 360 and we played them for about a hot minute, (laughs).

(16:55):
And we had it set up for a year and then we ended up using it, our DVD player died, so we ended up using our Xbox 360 to watch DVDs. And then, all of a sudden, you didn't really need DVDs to watch movies, so then we're watching all of our movies digitally through our Fire Stick or, you know, whatever it is. So now, my Xbox 360, which might've had a year of use, sits in a closet, (laughs), covered in dust as an emergency backup if all of a sudden our Fire Stick goes down.

(17:29):
So, I didn't think it through. I wanted it. Everyone else had it, but dang. It's expensive to be a gamer. (laughs).

Rosa McAllister (17:36):
Yeah, I think we've all had these things. I can think of multiple things from the car that had the extra whatever set I never used to all kinds of different things like that. I have Apple TV and I use it to watch Netflix and Hulu and it offers so many other things that I almost never use. But I love it and it's nice. I mean, there's how many examples that we have where we get something and we think we're really gonna use it and we really don't, where we don't use it as fully, or it doesn't live up to it's potential.

Joe Murphy (18:08):
I've had the offer. I struggled for years with writing. I'm not a very good writer and ne- keeping notes and writing even in emails, g- grammatically, I made constant mistakes. But I finally invested in a simple program called Grammarly and know what? Since then, it's made my life so much easier. I'm not scared to write. 80 bucks a year for something like that benefit that much. It's not much money, but it's made my life just so much easier and comfortable where I don't hesitate to write. I don't hesitate to respond to somebody. Like, "Oh, crap. I gotta do this and I gotta read this 30 times and make sure I'm not missing a comma-"

Rosa McAllister (18:43):
Mm-hmm.

Joe Murphy (18:43):
... and someone's gotta get the red pen out and start correcting. (laughs).

Tracy Lapreziosa (18:46):
(laughs).

Joe Murphy (18:46):
I wonder how that might be. I'm just kidding. (laughs).

Rosa McAllister (18:50):
I'm looking at the sky.

Joe Murphy (18:55):
Sorry, I threw that looking in the air. (laughs).

(18:55):
But, it just made my life easier and I hesitated doing it and- 'cause, "Ah, I don't wanna spend the money."

Rosa McAllister (19:00):
Yeah.

Joe Murphy (19:00):
Again, I go back to, I'm cheap. (laughs). I ain't gonna lie. I- I like to save my money for other things sometimes. But this made this life so easy.

Rosa McAllister (19:08):
That's so cool. And there is. There's so much out there. There's an app for that. There's a program for that. There's a whatever. Sometimes the research that we need to do is pretty intense, but Joe, I can't tell you how many typing tutor programs I've done, not being a typer, and I've thrown them all out or given them away because I start to try it and think, "You know what? My two fingers work really well and I'm fast."

Tracy Lapreziosa (19:32):
(laughs).

Rosa McAllister (19:33):
And that's good enough.

Joe Murphy (19:33):
I was meeting with a young man yesterday in, uh, South Philadelphia 'bout to graduate. And for, I think a class, he has to basically write comprehensive stuff that. And because he's totally virtual, they don't realize the way he's writing sentences is by using his text-to-speech on his phone. He'll say the sentences and it'll come right in on his phone and because the mom and this was more for employment, so wondering about communication, he's like, "Why should I correct 'em? Why should the teacher have to change

Joe Murphy (20:00):
Agent. It's the way everyone writes. You're 100% right. I put my phone up to my mouth and I send a text that way. You don't need to type it out and spell all the words out anymore. There's other technology out there. If the technology's there, use it. Why do we have to correct people? So, he's doing the same thing and he's a young man, who's pretty cool, kid's gonna graduate in a month and a half. Hasn't been in a school in a year and a half.

Rosa McAllister (20:22):
Wow. That's super cool.

Tracy Lapreziosa (20:24):
This conversation is just, I think, kinda showing us that we all have our own preferences for how we choose technology and what we choose, how we use it, so, you know, technology is kind of a person-driven thing. It should not necessarily be towards the biggest and the best, it has to be, like, what fits us as a person, what's useful to us. What's useful to me is not useful to Joe or not useful to Rosa or not useful to Jess and vice versa. So it has to be interesting to us and useful to us. Just just wanna take that and kind of apply it to our friends who use the AAC because that's typically a problem, I think, with folks who use AAC and if they get something that is not usable, it's the biggest and brightest and shiniest but it's maybe more than what they need, that type of thing. So I think there's kind of a danger sometimes that people might be forced to adapt to the demands of a piece of equipment rather than actually ensuring that the device meets their needs.

(21:23):
And I know you all have had a lot of experience with supporting folks with different types of AAC. Are there some examples that you have of people who may be the choice was made for them to get a piece of equipment that was too many bells and whistles for what they needed that it just wasn't functional?

Jessica Stover (21:41):
Oh my gosh, so I know this is a podcast but audio, but we're all looking at each other, like, wiggling our eyebrows and going, "Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh." (laughs) I think it's happened more often than not. I mean, I can get it started. We all have bazillion stories but I'll never forget, I had a family member call me, they're like, "Jess. So, I got Mike this thing."

(22:01):
I'm like, "W- what thing?"

(22:02):
"Well, you know, one of those tablet things."

(22:05):
I'm like, "Okay, what kinda tablet thing?"

(22:07):
"Well, all of his friends had one and I thought he could use it and he could use it for communication."

(22:12):
I'm like, "Okay, so again, what tablet?"

(22:14):
"Well, I think it's an iPad."

(22:16):
"Okay, which I-," you know, and we're g- trying to, like, unpack this further and further and I'm like, this was before the iPads had switch access built into them. And Mike was a guy that did not like to touch things, so then we had this other layer of the best of intentions of hey, this is a really cool technology, could really help him, but access-wise it didn't work and Mike wasn't involved in the decision process. So, unfortunately, that really cool tablet just sat and collected dust because Mike didn't want anything to do with it and he stuck with what worked for him. It happens really often, really often.

Rosa McAllister (22:56):
Yep. Um, immediately came to mind one of the many things that I will never, ever forget. I was in my office upstairs in Valley Forge, and this young man came in, recommended by someone who had gone through some training with us regarding AACL alternative and augmentative communication, different styles of communication, great person. And she kinda knew this guy but she really knew the support coordinator, social worker more who worked with him. So they came, so it's this person I knew who was remotely connected to this guy, his social worker, and this young man who was I think about 18, 19 years old. You, you could tell immediately, not to judge a book by its cover, but you could tell immediately this was a cool guy, you know, the way he dressed, his hair, the way he s-, kinda swaggered, the whole bit.

(23:48):
And they came upstairs and all I, right away said to him, "Do you have any idea why you're here? Did anybody tell you?"

(23:54):
And he shook his head no. Well, right away obviously the guy's got some communication skills, right? So I was doing different things and then I kind of turned my head and said something to him and he didn't respond. So in my mind, I'm thinking maybe he doesn't hear so well. Okay, don't know.

(24:14):
So I looked at him, said to him, "I'm sorry, I turned my head. Can you hear me now?" and that's when he said, "I really can't hear," but he was clearly reading my lips.

(24:25):
So I looked at the social worker, because of course, I hadn't been given this information, which is fine because a lot of times we don't get the full picture. I looked at the social worker and she's like, "Oh, yes, he's deaf," of course, not looking at him.

(24:38):
And I said, "So, what are doing about this? I know he supposedly has these other labels, which of course we know now get in the way." So the person who I knew who had recommended him didn't even know that he was deaf, she didn't know that part because I guess they didn't think it was important? I'm not sure.

(24:58):
Anyway, I, just talking to him, could read my lips beautifully, started asking him different questions and he kept looking over at my desk. And they brought him in for, I forget what it was they had in mind, like, some big fancy, shiny, big communication device, you know, that this cool dude was not gonna wanna carry around to begin with. He kept looking over at my desk, over at my desk, over at my desk.

(25:23):
So I'm like, "Is there something over there you wanna ..." And he, like, I said, "Help yourself. Go over."

(25:28):
He went over, sat himself down in front of my computer and did what I can't do, that is, put his hands, whatever you're supposed to do on a keyboard and started, all of a sudden, and then realized, he started using my mouse, 'cause back in the old day it was an actual desktop, started using my mouse. And next thing I know, he's on the internet and he's pulling up the website for the school for the deaf.

(25:52):
And I'm like, "DO you guys see what's happening? Come on over here." Like, "Is it okay if they come over?"

(25:56):
He's like, "Mem- dup-," bringing them all over, and then something told me, and I started signing to him using a little bit of ASL. And he lit up like a Christmas tree and he started signing back to me and I had to say, like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, slow, slow, slow. I'm really bad," and this kinda stuff.

(26:13):
So it turns out he's telling me, by way of my computer because he realized that somebody was finally listening to him, that he had gone to a school for the deaf in Texas and was uprooted from there. And this guy could sign like whatever and type like whatever, and here are these two people, one of whom is his social worker, who had no idea.

(26:38):
Now, it had to've been in his records and I just, like, "You brought him here for what?" And it was like, "How many people around him know how to sign?"

(26:48):
"Uh, nobody."

(26:50):
"Well, what are you gonna do about it?"

(26:53):
So, he did not leave with any kind of recommendation for a device. He had devices galore called his brain and his hands already right there. He could lip read phenomenally. I could go on and on.

Jessica Stover (27:05):
That makes me remember, Joe, we told this story before, do you remember? This was years ago, Joe and I were out with at a provider and kind of doing like a, uh, clinic where we were seeing, like, maybe five or six people during the course of the day and there was this woman that was referred, we had the sheet with the information, so and so years old, does not speaks, needs a communication device. All right.

(27:29):
She comes in with her support person and we introduce ourselves explain, you know, do you know why you're here and she shakes her head no, so we're talking more about why we, we're meeting and if she was okay with that. And I said, "Well, it says here," and I pulled out the paper and I gave it to her, I said, "It says here that you don't speak."

(27:48):
And she looks at me dead in the eye, Joe and I were sitting there and she looks at both of us and she said, "I don't like that person so I don't talk to them."

(27:57):
I think we both about fell off our chairs. So we spent the rest of the time just carrying on, talking, getting to know her. She's a fantastic human being. She speaks French, she loves trashy harlequin novels. She didn't get a communication device recommendation or ideas from us period. What we actually spent time with her doing was she wanted a way to be able to stay in touch with her sister that lived a couple states away, so we looked at how could we adapt a computer for her so she could type a little easier and look at different things in that regard, but yeah, she's, "I don't talk to that person because I don't like them." What? (laughs) It's ridiculous.

Jessica Stover (28:35):
I mean, back when we first s- started this (laughs) many moons ago it seems like now, I mean, we would see more frequent-, we still see that there's, that big piece of equipment sitting in a closet collecting dust. It's great that a person's referred for a piece of equipment but when you need support though, it's scary for the people around then, all of a sudden, that I gotta work with this thing that costs $12,000, to support this guy to use this when I have no clue how to turn it on or where it's gotta be or do anything else?

(29:05):
So the supports aren't there for supporters in a lot of times when these recommendations from anybody was made. Life's getting a little bit easier now 'cause even though, Jess, you're right, I don't think people should just be referred and iPad or a tablet because everyone has a tablet, but some of these people are used to seeing touchscreens now. The price has come down so I'm not scared to drop it or break it as much, so maybe we're in a spot where we can help people break out and move onto the next level and people are seeing that these magical devices on, on, on tables can help us all stay in touch during this pandemic. We all did it. Heck, I'm in Philadelphia, Jess is in north central PA, Tracy, I have no clue where you actually live, so I'm not even gonna say where you're at and-

Tracy Lapreziosa (29:47):
Pottstown. (laughs)

Jessica Stover (29:50):
Pottstown and, uh, (laughs) Rosa's out of Hawaii, so we're talking here across the United States, across the state of Pennsylvania and a- all the way across the Pacific Ocean right now and having this conversation

Joe Murphy (30:00):
While you can't see this, but we're face-to-face and this is our norm. Even without a pandemic going this, this is our norm (laughs). So things are getting easier for people and maybe it might be the time where we could help people really explore more for themselves and support them.

Rosa McAllister (30:16):
I agree. It's interesting you brought up what day and the year and the pandemic and all of that stuff, and it's all so true. And how many stories have there been in the news and everything else about people reconnecting? Even genetically, with the genetics test out there, people finding long-lost relatives. I mean, that's more technology. Crimes being solved because of that kind of stuff and the connections are ... We're getting closer and closer.

(30:43):
It's, as a friend of mind said recently, it's no longer six degrees of separation, it's only two. Especially if you've done the spit test and you did genetic testing (laughs) you know? But it's really true, and the pandemic, everybody's on Zoom. It's like everybody's on, as you said earlier J- I think it was you, Joe, that said we've been doing this at networks for a long time, virtual stuff. But everybody's doing it now, everybody.

(31:08):
Including grandmas and grandpas and uncles and little, little, little kids, like teeny-tiny little kids know what this is. And I get really excited about that thinking about what's that gonna do for those of us who really are disconnected or really do have difficulty, whether it's through communication or getting around or staying connected. Whatever it is, it's pretty exciting. It's scary, but it's a pretty exciting time.

Tracy Lapreziosa (31:34):
I mean, I think one thing everybody kind of touched on too is that in order to be able to use all the technology we have to have the training for ourselves, for the people around us, and if a person uses AAC they have to make sure they have a team around them that is trained in the troubleshooting of using a device, because I, I worked in the school district and so often a child would have a piece of equipment, and their personal assistant would be trained in how to use it, but god forbid that person had a sick day and couldn't come in, that child, a lot of times, lost their voice for the day or the week, or w- however long that person was out. And how sad is that?

(32:14):
And I'm involved with a referral right now where the young lady is in her 20s and during the course of the conversation found out that she had a communication system when she was in high school but her parents were never informed of what it was or trained in how to use what it was that she was using, and now she's been out of school several years and now they're only now trying to figure out what to use. And she had something and it was taken away the day she graduated. We have to do a better job of making sure that if somebody has a system, that it goes with them and goes to the people around them and everybody knows what's going on as we move forward.

Rosa McAllister (32:57):
A number of years ago in Pennsylvania there were a couple people who really stared a project called No Device Left Behind with the idea that somebody who had something that really worked for them that was purchased by a school or an organization or whatever, that it really was theirs and it went home with them on weekends and it went home for holiday breaks and summer breaks. And when they graduated, it was theirs because there were so many people just like that person you're talking about. And that's when something really works for somebody. We still have these huge glitches in our system, ridiculous huge glitches.

Tracy Lapreziosa (33:33):
And I still think no matter how high-tech a device that you're using, you still have to have your backup system, whether it's a typing or a Eyegaze or a letter board or whatever, that you always have your backup and everybody knows what that backup is.

Jessica Stover (33:47):
The other thing too, I mean, I'll just add like with that No Device Left Behind, several years ago Ireland was on the cusp of actually creating something national for the country, similar to that. They were calling it at that point in the early stage an AT backpack. Your assistive technology followed you from birth through your entire lifespan. It was always with you across no matter where you were in life. And that was something nationally that was getting started, so I have to look into that more to see where they are with that.

(34:14):
For a country to recognize the need for that was absolutely phenomenal. I think the other critical component beyond that training or comfort of use for supporters is the belief that someone can use it and wants to use it and needs to use it, and it adds value to their voice so people can hear them and really honor what they're saying. And I think so often that lack of belief is hugely detrimental, and I know just in my limited experiences and time of doing this, that's been almost always the number one issue we encounter, is that people don't believe that Mike can really use this, or Mary can really use this, or it's really a benefit for them and why should we even bother.

Tracy Lapreziosa (35:01):
Excellent point. Does anybody else have any other closing comments?

Rosa McAllister (35:06):
Let me just add in-

Tracy Lapreziosa (35:07):
You wanna add?

Rosa McAllister (35:07):
We've been talking about young people, we've been talking about, um, teenagers, we've talked about young adults. We've talked about some older folks. But the other really growing market here that we all need to keep tabs on is senior citizens. Because the acquired issues with communication, acquired through age, illness, accident, is huge. The numbers of people with hearing issues that don't get taken care of because they figure just, "I'm gonna live with it," and everybody around them screams until the person decides to just not even bother anymore, not to talk on the phone anymore, not to this.

(35:47):
I mean, how many of us have family members where we've seen this happen? Where they get isolated, all that. Nursing homes, assisted living places, or senior centers are talking about the huge, huge numbers of unassisted adults who have real communication issues that are not being met at all, at all. And as we started talking about, we have so much technology that's right off the shelf that's so easy to use, and yet it's not getting necessarily into the hands of them. So the Jitterbug Phone, that was made a number of years ago, probably a decade ago now, a very simple cellphone for senior citizens.

(36:24):
AARP really pushed that and marketed that, put it in all their ads for people. We need to see more of this. We really do. We need to help and get information out to h- lots of more people so they help family members and help others as their agent. There's no reason for somebody to go without, without the ability to hear, without the ability to converse, without the ability to tell people what they want and what they don't want. And that goes all the way up into death. I work in hospice, and I cannot tell you the number of times where I'm called in because we're not sure what the person's saying.

(37:03):
And just some of the simple things that we've done over the years about helping to understand someone's yes or no, you know, can make such a difference in the last days with somebody. Our job is not done here, guys. Not at all. And there is that huge, huge growing market.

Jessica Stover (37:21):
Absolutely agree.

Tracy Lapreziosa (37:23):
If there aren't any other comments, I'd like to wrap up today's podcast. Thank you Joe, thank you Rosa, thank you Jess for sharing all your experiences regarding assistive technology and communication, your own personal experiences and the experiences with those that you have supported over the years. If you as a listener or someone you know uses AAC and would like to share your story with others, please contact me, Tracy Lapreziosa, at tracyl@networksfortraining.org to be a part of the ongoing communication series and the conversation. Thank you all for joining us today.

Rosa McAllister (38:03):
Thank you.