Geralyn Arango-Deely (00:18):
Hello, and welcome to season two of Our Parallel Paths: A Future For My Loved One With a Disability... and For Me! I'm your host, Gerry, Dr. Geralyn Arango-Deely, parent, professor, podcaster. Our Parallel Paths is about creating a promising future for our adult family members with an intellectual disability, like my son Nick, and a promising future for ourselves. As that role of parent, family member, caregiver, whoever you are in their lives, evolves alongside them. There's more than one path, more than one future to talk about, and that's why we're here.

(00:59):
So I'm still thinking about managing and supporting staff. Last episode, I offered you my five tips for supporting the people who support Nick, which is a job I find kinda challenging. And, you know, I shared my tips. Communicate, delegate, check in, acknowledge work, and understand. I offered you a few connections that I have to these tips. A few little stories. But I'm not done yet. 'Cause for today's episode, I'm excited for you to meet Bradley Beck. Brad is our family's supports broker, which I would describe an experienced, flexible, creative team member, hired by Nick and our family to help us with hiring and supporting our staff. And just generally, like, helping Nick to live the kinda life he wants and the kinda life that we want for him. Helping somebody live the life they want looks different from person to person, of course, so Bradley's job differs from family to family. And that's what I want to talk about today. I'm curious about the whole supporting staff piece in someone else's experience. And so today, I'm asking a supports broker. Hi, Brad.

BRadley Beck (02:21):
Hi.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (02:21):
Hi (laughs). How did that definition sound about a supports broker?

BRadley Beck (02:26):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (02:26):
Did I forget anything (laughs)?

BRadley Beck (02:28):
Yeah, our main objective is to help people who direct their own supports exclusively, just to help them do that. Whether it's helping them hire workers, helping them manage natural supports, people that are in their lives who are unpaid and support them in some way. Helping them navigate their community, if they need help with that. And, helping them work with their financial management service.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (02:53):
That's a lot, okay (laughs). How long have you been a supports broker?

BRadley Beck (02:56):
Uh, nine years.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (02:57):
Nine years. Okay. So you come with a lot of experience. And if... In your experience, what do you think are the most important parts of your job?

BRadley Beck (03:06):
I think helping people find the right workers for them, but also, and we'll get into this, helping the family members, helping the parents understand what it is to have someone work with their child. And help them let go a little bit a trust the workers, and then get the best out of them. And just...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (03:30):
Mm.

BRadley Beck (03:30):
And help them support the workers, manage the workers.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (03:33):
Okay. I mean, it's such a job of releasing our role as parent to other people. And so... Or maybe some of us, me for sure, have to take on some new roles, highlight some new parts of our personality that we weren't using as much. So I'm curious to know, on behalf of all of us who have to manage a support staff in person or remotely. I was talking about in my last podcast, is sometimes I felt like Charlie from Charlie's Angels 'cause I was doing everything from someplace else. What do you think we need to keep in mind to be optimal, to be effective at what I think of as a challenging, really important, somewhat frustrating sometimes, and always, like, ever-changing type of job? And so, I'm here to listen and have you share your tips. And so please, oh, please, tell me your story. I think a s- story is a really important and powerful way for us to all kinda learn about things 'cause we can hear ourselves in other people's stories.

BRadley Beck (04:34):
Yeah. So I would say communication, which you had talked about, is the most important thing. And what I wrote here was, uh, setting clear expectations for workers from the beginnings. And you said before that this is an ever-changing job. The people we love, we all change. And these jobs can change over time, and that's something that's to be expected. Pretty much just like any job.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (04:58):
Hmm.

BRadley Beck (04:58):
But setting the clear expectations from the beginning. So at the beginning, write a clear and concise job description that lets the potential workers know what to expect and what you expect out of them. What do you think about that? (laughs)

Geralyn Arango-Deely (05:13):
Yeah. You can trap yourself into being too clear, but you can't trap yourself into being too clear because seems like you can always kind of flex it out a little bit from where you start. But it's harder to flex it back in-

BRadley Beck (05:25):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (05:25):
... if you're too loose.

BRadley Beck (05:26):
And I wrote here, sensitive subjects, they don't have to be in, like, a job posting. You don't need to give everyone's secrets right away. But you wanna make sure that you're being clear.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (05:36):
You don't want people to sort of say, "Oh, you didn't say that," because that could be a potential killer. So you have to be honest. But then, you have to be honest in a way that's sort of respectful of the person.

BRadley Beck (05:48):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (05:49):
But also like, "Yeah, this is the job."

BRadley Beck (05:52):
Well, that's something when I meet with families for the first time or getting to know them... And you've experienced this with me. When we're putting a job ad out or looking for workers, I will say, "What are the hours? What are the days?" Like, even really granular things like that. And maybe a parent might say, "Well, maybe this time. Could be the morning, could be the afternoon." And I'm like, "We have to set an actual days and times and get these things in there." Because when we're putting out a job ad, the person that's looking for the job, they might be looking for something on Wednesdays and Fridays. And if you're making it vague where it seems like it might be Mondays and Thursdays, they might not apply. Or, they might apply for something that the hours that are really needed aren't what they're available for, and then you get some good candidate, it turns out they're not even-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (06:42):
And then you have to turn 'em back because-

BRadley Beck (06:44):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (06:44):
... "Oh, oh I don't have those hours." So again, it's that sort of trying to be tight, and you can always loosen. But if you're too loose-

BRadley Beck (06:53):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (06:53):
... you may miss an opportunity for somebody who just needed to know more.

BRadley Beck (06:57):
When you're vague about things at the beginning and people start getting the wrong impression of what the job is, that can cause problems down the line because it can go for months and months and months, where they are thinking their expectations are one thing, but your expectations are different. And then you might start to notice this, but then you think to yourself, "What do I say? They're already, you know..."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (07:23):
I didn't tell them they couldn't, so they did. And now-

BRadley Beck (07:25):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (07:25):
... I wish they hadn't.

BRadley Beck (07:26):
Yeah. So I, I have here... So I said, "When things go awry, the worker will say, 'Nobody told me,' or, 'I didn't know.'" I've heard that multiple times in unfortunate situations. And there's usually a little bit of truth to that. Sometimes not as much. And it usually starts from the beginning with a lack of communication to the workers of the expectations of the job. Bad habits start, and then... Well, already said the employer's hesitant to give that feedback because they already feel like they failed from the beginning and there's just no way to save it. Of course, there is a way to save it.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (07:59):
I was gonna say...

BRadley Beck (07:59):
There is...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (07:59):
That's what I was gonna say. It's like-

BRadley Beck (07:59):
(laughs)

Geralyn Arango-Deely (08:00):
... well, given that something kinda went south there, is there... in your experience, have you had examples or experiences with just being able to kinda salvage it? Because you'd hope that you don't have to lose somebody over something like that, unless you have to lose somebody over something like that. Is there a way? Ha-... What have you seen? What have you done?

BRadley Beck (08:19):
It depends on the worker.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (08:20):
Uh-huh.

BRadley Beck (08:20):
It really depends on, at that point, is this someone who they're being genuine and honest in that they didn't understand the expectations? Or is it someone who wasn't given clear expectations and they were taking advantage of it?

Geralyn Arango-Deely (08:34):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (08:35):
Uh, and one of those workers is gonna work out the other one is not gonna work out.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (08:41):
Okay. Yeah, yeah. Because we don't want people to take advantage, or at least not too often.

BRadley Beck (08:49):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (08:49):
But it happens. But hopefully it's just like, "Let's just clarify," because I guess in some way I can say, "At this point, I'm seeing a need that maybe I didn't see when we started the job description." So you have to be able to finesse that too. It's something that I know, like I say, I have struggled with. Yeah, tell me more about that one, with the clear expectations and the need to sometimes-

BRadley Beck (09:12):
Well, we had-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (09:12):
... to be further clear.

BRadley Beck (09:13):
... um, a person who was living in a group home and their mom helped them move out. Actually, she moved back home with her mom. And this person needed 24/7 support, so we hired a few people, most of whom are working full-time or very high part-time hours. And one of the workers (laughs) was not working out after a few months. She was not listening to advice, for lack of a better word, given to her by the mom, who's the common law employer, who's the boss. That's more than advice, it's-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (09:47):
Yeah, the boss.

BRadley Beck (09:47):
... directions.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (09:48):
Yeah (laughs).

BRadley Beck (09:49):
And she felt she knew better. And it was a very difficult situation to be in because also this worker was, as I knew, a friend of the mother. And, you know, far be it for me to, I guess, be harsh with someone like that.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (10:07):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (10:08):
And so after a while, we came up with an idea. Since everyone was hired at the same time, we were gonna have a one-year... it was... I don't remember if it was six y-... months or one year performance feedback. And we were gonna be very... do it a kind of a traditional way, where you give people a self-form where they talk about themselves. And you fill out the same form the, the common law employer did. And then you see where the differences are, where the discrepancies are. And for pretty much every worker, they were the same.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (10:37):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (10:37):
But this worker thought they were, you know, (laughs) the best ever and the parent had some serious issues. And when I presented it to the worker, well, she quit.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (10:50):
Okay.

BRadley Beck (10:50):
So (laughs) actually...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (10:51):
Well, you know what? There's that point where you have the opportunity to clarify-

BRadley Beck (10:56):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (10:57):
... and that's what the person did with it.

BRadley Beck (10:58):
Also was later clarified to me that she was not actually friends with-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:02):
Oh.

BRadley Beck (11:02):
... the mom.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:02):
Ah, jeez (laughs).

BRadley Beck (11:03):
They just knew each other (laughs), so...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:04):
They just knew each other.

BRadley Beck (11:05):
Yeah (laughs).

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:05):
Okay. Okay.

BRadley Beck (11:07):
I was very new to brokering at the time, and we were just very nervous about this worker. Like, she didn't seem like someone who was willing to take feedback.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:17):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (11:17):
Which is something we will get into. It's nerveracking enough to give feedback-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:21):
Oh, yeah.

BRadley Beck (11:22):
... as a parent or a supports broker. But some workers are, you know, hesitant to receive it and, you know, they get defensive. And if they do, there's really not much you can...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:35):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (11:36):
If they're being defensive and you're saying, "These are, like, three things you should be doing better, this is how you can accomplish them."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:42):
Right.

BRadley Beck (11:43):
But if they're putting up that wall, they're, you know... they're not... they're not gonna...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (11:46):
I'll tell you what, you're making me think about some stuff that I should add into what I'm doing with Nick's staff, which is to have some regular feedback on performance. I've never done that.

BRadley Beck (11:58):
I think it's something families should consider, but it's not something that I think should be mandatory-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (12:04):
...right.

BRadley Beck (12:05):
... because this isn't, you know, a typical provider, a traditional provider. We wanna be professional, but also this is your home. It's a... more of a family thing. But it is a nice way to at least be consistent.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (12:22):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (12:22):
And, and, y- you know, you can say, "If there ever was some issue, well, look, we treated everyone exactly the same."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (12:27):
Mm-hmm. But does it also give people, like, a chance to kinda refresh and reinforce the expectations at a point? You know, "Okay, you've been with us a year, you've been with us whatever." It seems a little HR-ish, but it might be a way to say, "Oh, yeah, let's clarify. Remember, the job description-

BRadley Beck (12:44):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (12:44):
... tells us this. And so how do you think you're doing with it? And how do I, I think you're doing with it?"

BRadley Beck (12:50):
Yeah. And if you tie it to raises in conversation, then it makes it something that is a little more real. It's not just a random... Which is what we did with this other, you know...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (12:59):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (13:01):
We did indeed tie it to increases in salary.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:03):
Okay. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Now my little wheels are turning.

BRadley Beck (13:05):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:05):
(laughs)

BRadley Beck (13:05):
So I will say about feedback, don't be afraid to give it. And how a worker receives it says a lot about them. And make sure corrective action and major issues are addressed and documented.

(13:16):
So I was listening to another podcast-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:18):
What? (laughs)

BRadley Beck (13:19):
... about... last week. It's called Fly on the Wall. It's a podcast about Saturday Night Live. And-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:25):
(laughs)

BRadley Beck (13:26):
... David Spade, if you remember him-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:28):
I remember David Spade.

BRadley Beck (13:29):
... he's the host of the show and he was interviewing Colin Quinn, who was a writer on the show at the time, as well as the weekend update.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (13:36):
I remember him too.

BRadley Beck (13:37):
So David Spade was saying that when Colin Quinn would write him sketches, when they would rehearse them, Colin Quinn would always give just effusive feedback. "Oh, you did a wonderful job. Everything about that was fantastic." And it made him feel good at first. But after a while, he started to think, "Is he just saying this because he wants me to choose his sketches? Is he just blowing smoke?" But then one day, he did a readthrough of a sketch and Colin Quinn had given him some constructive feedback about some of the choice he was making and said, you know, "Please don't do that in the sketch, it would be better if you did it this way."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (14:13):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (14:13):
And then David Spade realized, "Oh, he really did like what I did all along."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (14:18):
Uh-huh.

BRadley Beck (14:19):
And then it made the constructive feedback that Colin gave him, he was more receptive to it because it wasn't the first time he had heard it. And he also knew that, "Yeah, he generally likes my work. And if this is the one thing he has issue with, then I'll listen."

Geralyn Arango-Deely (14:34):
Okay. It's not putting people on the defensive. It's helping people to feel like it's all part of growing in the job.

BRadley Beck (14:41):
Yeah. And I think as a parent, as an employer, you have to be willing to... 'Cause it's kind of embarrassing to do this, although I personally love doing it, is let people know how well of a job they're doing. How much you appreciate them. And be specific.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (14:55):
Yeah, I like to do that.

BRadley Beck (14:56):
But no one likes to do the bad thing.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (14:58):
I know.

BRadley Beck (14:59):
No one likes to give the constructive feedback. I don't wanna say negative feedback. If it's negative feedback, it means you're letting 'em go because-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:07):
Yeah.

BRadley Beck (15:07):
... otherwise, you know-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:08):
At that point, yeah-

BRadley Beck (15:09):
Yeah, you...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:09):
... we're done. (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

BRadley Beck (15:10):
And sometimes people only get the one feedback (laughs), unfortunately.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:16):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (15:16):
But most workers, if you have an issue with people from time to time, you just have to be able to address it. But don't put yourself in a position where the first time you're telling someone something about their job is four months in and it's something negative. You want to build up that rapport with them and let them know that they can trust you and, and you can trust them.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:36):
Yeah. And that you can have the conversation about, "What are we gonna do now-

BRadley Beck (15:39):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:39):
... about this issue?"

BRadley Beck (15:39):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:39):
All right. All right. Thank you.

BRadley Beck (15:39):
Uh...

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:43):
Yeah.

BRadley Beck (15:44):
So then the next... Two other things I have that go hand in hand are trust and empowerment. So trust is difficult because this is your most cherished person, a person who is vulnerable.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (15:57):
Yes.(laughter0

BRadley Beck (15:58):
And I feel the, the same way. I have two teenage children at this point, when you hear the podcast. (laughs)

Geralyn Arango-Deely (16:05):
(laughs)

BRadley Beck (16:06):
So when they were younger I certainly felt almost the same way that any parent listening to this would feel. But the reward is that the workers will be more invested.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (16:18):
Folks, if you hear (laughs) anything in the background, it is Monday at Nick's condo, and Monday apparently, especially after a long rain, is mow the lawn day. So forgive us in advance for that. But we were just in some good stuff, where Bradley was telling us a little bit more about his experiences and the idea of trust.

BRadley Beck (16:35):
Yeah. Trust is definitely... it's a difficult thing. I have an example that stuck with me for all the wrong reasons.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (16:44):
Mm.

BRadley Beck (16:44):
When I first started as a broker, one of the first families I met, the mom said to me when we were talking about hiring a worker, "I think that respect is something that is not given, but it's earned." Even though I was new to the job, I kind of immediately looked at her and said, "I tend to just respect anybody who comes my way." Really, that stuck with me for years and years as I've hired people. Now, I understand that you're not gonna just trust someone who you just hired-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (17:17):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (17:17):
... to work with your son. But if you don't even respect them at the beginning (laughs), I feel like it's a large gap to get from respect to trust.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (17:27):
Mm.

BRadley Beck (17:27):
So if you're looking to hire people to work with your child, where if you're looking to self-direct, or even if you're looking to have an agency come in and have people work with your son or daughter, it's never gonna work if you don't trust them.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (17:41):
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

BRadley Beck (17:42):
And you have to, uh, think about ways that you can build up that trust.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (17:50):
It's such a... This person, this vulnerable person that I love and that I would fall on the sword for, to use my husband's phrase, is a person that I'm role-releasing to you, a new person. And so the words that are used in the disability community, presume competence on the part-

BRadley Beck (18:08):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (18:08):
... of that person until you know in this way... in this case, until proven otherwise. You know, I have to say, "While I trust you enough to hire you, I trust you enough to have you be with my son, daughter in the community, I have to presume competence. Please, I wanna be right about you."

BRadley Beck (18:25):
Yes. Once again, there are definitely workers we have hired, help families hire over the years who have not worked out.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (18:33):
Mm-hmm.

BRadley Beck (18:33):
There's never been anything absolutely terrible that has happened, thankfully. But there have been, you know, reasons people have been let go that are certainly not what we expected when we hired them. But, yeah, I think that's the same as any field.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (18:49):
Yes.

BRadley Beck (18:50):
With trust, I would put empowerment with it. Workers spend a lotta time with your loved one. So we were just talking before about that woman who receives 24/7 support. Some of-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (19:02):
Mm.

BRadley Beck (19:02):
... her workers are full-time workers.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (19:04):
Okay.

BRadley Beck (19:05):
If someone is working 40 hours a week for multiple years with someone, they should have something to bring to the table when talking about their progress. And they're gonna see a different side of your son or daughter.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (19:19):
I kn

BRadley Beck (19:20):
And even if they're a part-time worker. So valuing their input and letting them work, letting them find things to do that might be what you don't have in mind. They... That can really produce some wonderful things. And, uh, one person I work with expressed an interest in art. And we started looking for workers who also had an interest in art as a way of connecting someone to something that they're interested in, as opposed to just finding someone who just is interested in working with someone with a disability. And we found some wonderful workers over the years who would take him to museums and to places where art happens. And he learned about art. He learned about different ways of expressing himself. And started to create wonderful art on his own that has been displayed, that has been purchased. And it's really helped him find his voice in a way that if no one was listening, just as easily in another timeline could've never created any of that.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (20:27):
Yeah. It is fun to kind of say, "Tell me about yourself," and get those wheels turning for both of us about, like, "What can you bring to the job that I don't have in the job description?" Like, "Oh, I have a great love of..."

BRadley Beck (20:39):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (20:39):
You know? Nick did have a person who was, by trade, an artist. And I didn't ever see that piece of him.

BRadley Beck (20:47):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (20:48):
You know, this is not a person who's going to do that. But she drew that out of him. And for the time that she was working with him, he became artistic. And when she left, he still spoke of wanting to do stuff like that. And I had never heard it before and I haven't heard it since. But it was a piece of her that she gave to him.

BRadley Beck (21:09):
Yeah. And that's definitely one of the questions I ask potential workers when I screen them for the first time or the first time I make contact about them. Is, "Tell me something about yourself, an interest you have that might be outside of this field that you could bring-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (21:25):
Absolutely.

BRadley Beck (21:26):
... to a, a relationship." One of my workers who I've been working with for many years works with a couple different people. The first time I met him, he was not necessarily interested in working with people with a disability. But I had told him that the person who I was hiring for absolutely loved wrestling, professional wrestling. He said, "I love wrestling, maybe we could-

Geralyn Arango-Deely (21:46):
There you go. There you go.

BRadley Beck (21:48):
... make a bond over that." And sure enough, they did. But then the worker quickly discovered that he enjoyed working with people with disabilities and helping them get the best out of their lives, and wasn't just about wrestling anymore.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (22:00):
Mm. I like that.

BRadley Beck (22:00):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (22:01):
I like hearing that too because it's so hard when you realize that, "Yeah, I pay these people, and when the money goes, they may go." But maybe that interest will stay anyway, you know? And that's a gift that is the gift that keeps on giving in that way. Because it brought out something in my child that, again, I have no way of finding out because, for example, I don't (laughs) care about wrestling. But if all of a sudden someone brought that to the job and it gave my son an interest that he didn't have before 'cause nobody told him-

BRadley Beck (22:33):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (22:33):
... that's a real gift.

BRadley Beck (22:34):
Yeah.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (22:34):
And so, you know what I wanna do at this point? Because we get to a point where this is about as long as the podcast gets. So what I would like to do is to start up another episode. And we can keep talking about this.

BRadley Beck (22:47):
Okay.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (22:48):
Because I think it's really important and I think there's more to share. And I wanna give our listeners a chance to take a break and pop back in for another episode. So for now, Brad, I'm gonna ask you to come back and say to my listeners thanks for joining me on Our Parallel Paths today. And I hope to see you in about five minutes-

BRadley Beck (23:09):
Okay.

Geralyn Arango-Deely (23:09):
... because we're go on to another episode. I know that this beginning of these thoughts from Brad on managing our support people, I hope they help you on your journey, 'cause they're helping me on mine. And so, as a formality, do please consider becoming a follower of Our Parallel Paths. And I really hope that you'll return to listen and learn for more stories of people like you and me and our loved one with a disability on Our Parallel Paths. Our next episode will be more from Bradley. But for now, see ya, and, uh, and take care.