Geralyn Arango Deely (00:12): Hi, family member. Do you recall my interview with Terri Brewer about her parallel path alongside her son, William, from season three of the podcast? I hope you do, because today we're gonna follow up with Terri to hear the story of William moving out to live on his own. (00:33): So hi, everybody, and welcome to episode three of season six of Our Parallel Paths: A Future for My Loved One with a Disability and For Me. My name is Gerry, Dr. Geralyn Arango, and this podcast is about just what the title says, the parallel paths of family members and their loved ones with intellectual disabilities. (00:54): I'm a parent myself and I always have questions. So let's nurture and support ourselves as we nurture and support our loved ones with intellectual disabilities, because there's more than one path, more than one future to talk about, and that's why we're here. So I am delighted to introduce today's returning guest, Terri Brewer. Uh, Terri and I, and our sons, William and Nick, share the same supports broker, Bradley Beck. (01:22): And you may remember Bradley from an episode a while back about managing support staff. I did a couple of episodes on that. And back then, Bradley had shared with me that Terri's story was one that we needed to hear as someone supporting her son, William, to live his vision of an everyday meaningful life. I've seen William's paintings on Facebook, on Instagram, these bright bursts of color. I'm even looking at them, um, as we speak on Zoom, I'm looking at them behind Terri, and they're just beautiful and joyful so often. (01:59): Um, I've also watched videos that William has created and posted. I've been to presentations by Terri on topics like the Life Course Tools. And I know that Terri and William, correct me if I'm wrong, are both active in an organization called SAU1, Self Advocates- Terri Brewer (02:15): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:16): ... United as 1. Okay. Terri Brewer (02:17): Absolutely. Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:19): And Families CCAN? Terri Brewer (02:22): Yes. We- Geralyn Arango Deely (02:23): Okay. Terri Brewer (02:23): We just did, um, a presentation for them. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:26): Okay. Terri Brewer (02:26): Uh, a few nights ago, yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:29): All right. So yeah, that's another really interesting organization. I would love to catch up with them at some point and get them on the podcast. Um, so maybe you can, you know, kind of weave that in, terri, as you're, as you're telling our story, your story here. Terri Brewer (02:43): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:43): But today's conversation really is a follow-up, and I'm calling it William moved himself. Um, because I was reviewing the transcript of our season three episode, and it was something that you, Terri, said, uh, referring to Wil- I think it was referring to William's school years. Terri Brewer (03:01): (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (03:02): And does that- Terri Brewer (03:03): Uh, yeah, yes. I remember, um, William went to an approved private school, so you could say, stay in the same class for a while. Geralyn Arango Deely (03:13): Right. Terri Brewer (03:13): And when he went back in September, he looked, he was in the same class, he got up and he moved to the next level. Geralyn Arango Deely (03:22): (laughs). Terri Brewer (03:22): Okay. And I got a call and they were like, "William moved." I said, "Okay, well?" Geralyn Arango Deely (03:27): (laughs). Terri Brewer (03:30): Everybody said, "We'll see how it works." And it, it worked out fine. Geralyn Arango Deely (03:35): All right. Well, that's, that's a kind of a nice little segue there- Terri Brewer (03:38): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (03:38): ... after all because, yeah, that, which you were using to refer to William school years, that impressed me about now. And even though you said it so long ago, I thought, what a... That would be kind of a fun place to start is William moved himself, although I'm sure there was much more involved than that. So welcome, Terri. And- Terri Brewer (03:59): Thank you. Geralyn Arango Deely (04:00): Mm-hmm. I wanna ask you, uh, my introduction was kinda meager about you. How would you describe yourself and introduce yourself to listeners who don't know you well, beyond my description, because it's been a while? Terri Brewer (04:14): Well, at this point in the game, I'm William's mother. That's how, uh, when I'm out, people refer to me as, "Are you William's mother?" Geralyn Arango Deely (04:30): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (04:31): And I'm, yes, I am. Um, I work with Self Advocates United as 1, which is a wonderful organization that, um, supports self-advocates and does training on self-advocacy. And this was my start. We started as the partnership years and years ago. And this was my first introduction into self-advocacy. So I've been, um, doing it for, I guess, Williams 40, so, like, 40, 40 years now. And everything I've learned, I've learned from family members the most- Geralyn Arango Deely (05:13): Yeah. Terri Brewer (05:15): ... the most. And we just continue to strive to, um, have William have the best life possible. Geralyn Arango Deely (05:28): Yeah. And I mean, I think so ma- so many of us really, that's what we're doing. It's really about what our loved one's vision is and how we can support them in, in that particular part of vis- their vision for their life. And back when we talked the first time, I, I, I, what I used to do was I give people a choice of questions or reflections before we talk. Terri Brewer (05:53): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (05:53): And you chose the topic A Day In The Life. And so- Terri Brewer (05:59): Okay (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (06:00): ... That, that, yeah, that, that, um, I'm curious to update about, um, to get William's story updated, a day in his life. Terri Brewer (06:08): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:08): But I'm also curious to know about the path that the two of you are navigating together, even when you're not physically together the way you were, you know, the last time I spoke to you where he was living in the house with you because- Terri Brewer (06:21): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:22): ... like, a day in the life of this is, is always really about, uh, one, a day in the life of William, a day in the life of Terri and William, and a day in the life of Terri and William and the whole family. Terri Brewer (06:32): Right, right. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:33): So where are you now and how did you get there? And how are you staying sane and strong while you're on the pra- on the path? Terri Brewer (06:43): It's funny when I, when I think back, actually, it's been, like, a year. William moved out, um, May of last year. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:56): Ah. Terri Brewer (06:57): And he was the driving force in all of this. When my husband and I moved into this house in 2010, my bright idea and his, you know, we, we thought, "Oh, you know, we'll leave this house to William." No, this is not something that William wanted. William always said that he wanted to live in an apartment. Geralyn Arango Deely (07:25): Okay. Terri Brewer (07:26): And the biggest obstacle to him was money, you know? Geralyn Arango Deely (07:33): Of course. Yeah. Terri Brewer (07:34): We, we can't pay a mortgage and pay rent for him or even with his support. So it was the pilot, the housing pilot through the Office of Developmental Programs- Geralyn Arango Deely (07:49): Okay. Terri Brewer (07:50): ... that, that, um, he wasn't accepted into. And this is what has enabled him to, uh, live on his own. And what I find now is I sometimes feel a bit disconnected from him because he is doing so much. He's living his life and he's loving it. He's doing events, uh, with his art and he's going to, you know, he was over in Jersey a couple of weeks ago doing an event. And as a matter of fact, in August, he will be going to San Francisco- Geralyn Arango Deely (08:42): Ooh. Terri Brewer (08:44): ... and some of his paintings will be in a gallery. Geralyn Arango Deely (08:48): Nice. Terri Brewer (08:50): So this- Geralyn Arango Deely (08:50): How exciting. Terri Brewer (08:51): This is a really big move and, and I had to... The way I navigated it, William has clearly set his boundaries of what he wants me involved in, and I could not do this. We could not do this without a supportive team. Geralyn Arango Deely (09:17): Okay. I got a lot of things I wanna unpack with you about these pieces, because part of what I hope to accomplish in our, in our podcast is to help people to see the pieces, because sometimes- Terri Brewer (09:27): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (09:28): ... it feels like, "Wow, she did that. They did that. I can't do that. " But it's, it is a lot. It's a lot of moving parts. And I'm gonna back you all the way up to the ODP piece where you were saying- Terri Brewer (09:39): Okay. Geralyn Arango Deely (09:39): ... um, what are you talking about there? Terri Brewer (09:43): The Office of Developmental Programs in Pennsylvania has, it's called a housing pilot, and it's in certain ca- Delaware County is one of the counties. It's not statewide. I believe they hope it to be statewide, but it is in Delaware County where we live. And, uh, William applied twice. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:05): Yeah. Terri Brewer (10:05): The first time he was denied. And what I think is that he... We didn't demonstrate enough that he could live or basically be overnight by himself. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:23): Okay. Terri Brewer (10:23): He would go away to camp, and he was perfectly fine, you know, being away from us, but we didn't show that he could stay in the house by himself. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:35): Yeah. Camp's not quite by yourself. Yeah, so. Terri Brewer (10:40): So what we did is my husband and I went away for a week. We took a cruise. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:46): I was gonna say, and how often do you get to go away? Terri Brewer (10:49): That was the first, that was the first time we ever went away. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:55): Aw. Terri Brewer (10:55): Ever went away. So it was really, really nerve-wrecking. But what we did was we had support... Of course, we had ev- everybody knew that we were leaving in terms of family and support- Geralyn Arango Deely (11:10): Right. Terri Brewer (11:10): But his support came during the day, made sure he ate everything was fine, and, uh, he was home alone- Geralyn Arango Deely (11:21): Ah. Terri Brewer (11:22): ... in the evening. Geralyn Arango Deely (11:22): Okay. Terri Brewer (11:24): Uh, and everybody had a key to the house just in case, too. Geralyn Arango Deely (11:29): Okay. Terri Brewer (11:30): And that went fine. There was no issue. So when it came back around, we applied again, and with the help of the support, we said, "Okay, you know, we showed that William can stay during the, you know, during the day, you know, and he's doing his thing." Geralyn Arango Deely (11:51): Yeah. Terri Brewer (11:51): He's painting or going out in the community, whatever it is he's doing, but the issue was at night, and we demonstrated that he could be alone at night in the house. So that was a, a big piece. Once it was accepted, that's when the work started, which we could not have done without... He does have the waiver, so there are supports. And one of the supports is called, uh, Home and Tenancy, where you can have someone who will look for apartments for you, who will talk to the landlords to- Geralyn Arango Deely (12:39): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (12:39): ... pave the way. Because- Geralyn Arango Deely (12:41): Yeah. Terri Brewer (12:41): ... what this grant does is, or this pilot does is it pays 70% and William pays 30% of the rent. Geralyn Arango Deely (12:50): Oh, that makes it so much more doable, possible. Terri Brewer (12:53): So it, it, it's doable. Geralyn Arango Deely (12:55): Yeah. Terri Brewer (12:56): And I was extremely nervous, but, uh, the young lady from Values Into Action was excellent. And the one thing I said was (laughs), "I wanna be able to hear him scream." (laughs). So I didn't want him too, I didn't want him too far away. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:16): Okay. Terri Brewer (13:17): And, and he's 15 minutes away. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:19): Okay. Terri Brewer (13:19): I think that's work- I think that's workable. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:21): Yeah. Terri Brewer (13:22): And she found listings, uh, talked to different, you know, the landlords, explained the program. I didn't have to do any of that. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:33): All right. Terri Brewer (13:33): She set every, she set everything up and within the boundaries that mom made, to be perfectly honest. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:47): Hey, that's all right. Terri Brewer (13:48): And, um, that's when we went and started looking, and we actually only looked at two apartments. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:59): Hmm. Terri Brewer (13:59): Um, Geralyn Arango Deely (13:59): Okay. Terri Brewer (14:00): Um, the one apartment was in Yeadon. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:01): Okay. Terri Brewer (14:02): He fell in love with it. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:04): Oh? Terri Brewer (14:05): He fell in love with it. And the other one was in Clifton Heights, which was a little bit closer to me. But, uh, he just kept saying, "Yeadon, Yeadon." Geralyn Arango Deely (14:17): All right. Terri Brewer (14:17): I'm like, "Well, o- okay." Geralyn Arango Deely (14:19): Okay. (laughs) Terri Brewer (14:19): So we, we put in... We filled out the application. The, the pilot paid all of the down payment. The only money that William has had to pay is 30% of his rent and his utilities. So that has worked out well. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:44): Okay. So you didn't, like, go a Section 8 route or anything like that? It was all through this pilot. Terri Brewer (14:49): I was. I put hi- That's another thing, I think that parents need to demonstrate, is the fact that this is something that the individual wants. William was on the Section 8 list. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:03): Okay. Terri Brewer (15:03): But as we know, uh, back, uh, who knows when- Geralyn Arango Deely (15:08): [inaudible 00:15:09] Terri Brewer (15:10): ... that's gonna come up. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:12): Yeah, the waiting list. (laughs) Terri Brewer (15:13): And he was... He was on that for maybe three years or so, and you know, that wasn't gonna come through. But we were waiting to see, and we were, you know, looking to see if there were any other programs, but it just so happened that this pilot opened up. It was in Delaware County, and he was finally accepted. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:37): Okay. And I mean, you sort of established the interest, and the desire, and the vision of, of, like, moving out by saying, "We're on the Section 8 list," no? Did that- Terri Brewer (15:46): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:47): ... help? Yeah. Terri Brewer (15:50): I don't know if it h- I don't know if it helped, but I do remember from the application, it asks if, you know, he was on any other housing list or, or one. So- Geralyn Arango Deely (16:05): Hmm. Terri Brewer (16:06): It couldn't've hurt. Geralyn Arango Deely (16:07): Okay. Didn't h- didn't hurt. I mean, you got it. Terri Brewer (16:09): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (16:10): So yeah. Terri Brewer (16:12): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (16:12): Yeah. And so, you know, at this point, where your son is gonna start packing, how did you f- Like, how did you feel about it? Terri Brewer (16:22): Well, of course I was nervous. I was excited because it's something that he wanted, and I know it was something that he wanted, and just to see... When he got the keys, and I have a picture of him with the keys (laughs) getting- Geralyn Arango Deely (16:44): Aww. Terri Brewer (16:44): ... the keys. He was just... He was just thrilled. So then it, it just got to the point of figuring out, you know, what it was he actually needed, needed in there. But I, I'm calm now, speaking calm, but I was a, I was a, nervous. I... The first thing I made sure is that there was a Ring camera. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:07): Sure. Terri Brewer (17:08): With- Geralyn Arango Deely (17:09): There's technology to help with s- with all- Terri Brewer (17:11): With- Geralyn Arango Deely (17:11): ... of this. Terri Brewer (17:12): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:13): Why not put it in place? Yeah. Terri Brewer (17:15): And also, through the Home Tenancy Service, you can get... And also with the supports coordinator, who was extremely helpful, and I know all aren't, but our People First is- Geralyn Arango Deely (17:33): Okay. Terri Brewer (17:34): ... a wonderful agency. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:35): Great. Terri Brewer (17:36): And, um, we got SafeinHome, which is, they have cameras. Um, in the main living areas. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:46): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (17:47): The kitchen and the, his living room. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:50): Yes. Terri Brewer (17:50): And so I can see. Um, they also have, in case there's a fire, his bed'll shake, because I said he likes a lot of noise, so he has, like, you know, a fan on YouTube, fan blowing, and he has also his stove fan that blows. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:13): Okay. Terri Brewer (18:13): So it's noise in there, so the bed would shake. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:18): All right. Terri Brewer (18:19): And they c- call him every day. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:22): So the white noise. He's sort of made- Terri Brewer (18:24): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:24): ... his own white noise. Terri Brewer (18:25): White noise, yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:26): And so you have to kind of be able to, to alert him over that noise, and I guess it- Terri Brewer (18:31): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:31): ... sounds like you're using something ph- like physical. Terri Brewer (18:35): Yes, so if he's in- Geralyn Arango Deely (18:35): All right. Terri Brewer (18:36): If he's in bed, his bed's gonna shake. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:38): All right. All right. Terri Brewer (18:40): Um, and they call and check on him. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:44): Yeah. Terri Brewer (18:45): Every, you know? And if they can't reach him, they call me, you know? They go down the line, so I- Geralyn Arango Deely (18:51): Very good. Terri Brewer (18:51): I feel really, really safe with that for him. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:55): Yeah. Yeah, because, um, in a perfect world, you don't need it, but it's gotta be there, just, uh- Terri Brewer (19:04): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:04): ... just in case, you know? Terri Brewer (19:05): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:06): And so that's, that's great, and that's another some- something that you can have through the waiver. And it- Terri Brewer (19:11): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:11): ... really helps to have a supports coordinator who can kind of keep putting you back onto that whole, like, list of things- Terri Brewer (19:18): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:19): ... that you can get through- Terri Brewer (19:20): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:20): ... your waiver, so good- Terri Brewer (19:21): And- Geralyn Arango Deely (19:22): ... good for them and good for you. Terri Brewer (19:24): And I'm not gonna lie. That first couple months, Mom was always looking at that camera, seeing what he was doing. (laughs) But- Geralyn Arango Deely (19:36): Hey, that... Yeah, because, I mean, you just emptied the nest, okay? Terri Brewer (19:41): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:42): And so your little bird's over there someplace, in a different tree, and- Terri Brewer (19:46): And- Geralyn Arango Deely (19:48): Yeah. Terri Brewer (19:48): And it, and it also gave me the opportunity to really observe him with me not being around, or my husband not being around, and there was a couple things that I had said when we were setting things up. One of the things that I had said was, "William will not use the oven unassisted or cook on the stove with the fire." Geralyn Arango Deely (20:14): Okay. Terri Brewer (20:14): "He doesn't like it. He's not gonna do it. We don't have-" Geralyn Arango Deely (20:16): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (20:16): ... "to worry about that. No, no, no." I look on the camera, and he's taking something outta... He puts his oven mitts on and he's taking something out of the oven, and then he's stirring a pot on top of it. And I'm like, "Well, he-" Geralyn Arango Deely (20:33): (laughs) Terri Brewer (20:33): ... "wasn't gonna d- do-" Geralyn Arango Deely (20:36): He was watching- Terri Brewer (20:37): ... "that." Geralyn Arango Deely (20:37): ... all that time. (laughs) Terri Brewer (20:40): And, and what I realized was... Because he would do. On, um, Tuesday n- Tuesday nights, Families CCAN has cooking. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:51): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (20:52): And you know, there's a group of individuals, and you go... They send you a list beforehand, and you go shopping, and you know exactly what you need, and then you set up your iPad or whatever, and you can watch, you know, them cooking with Chef Mary. So what I know is he would always tell me, me turn the stove on, me do this or that. And then I realized, my husband said, "Well, you were there. The boy gotta eat." So- Geralyn Arango Deely (21:27): Yeah, it's a motivator. Terri Brewer (21:27): ... he's doing what he needs... He- Geralyn Arango Deely (21:31): (laughs) Terri Brewer (21:31): He's gotta (laughs) he's doing what he needs to do. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:33): Yeah. Terri Brewer (21:33): And that's like- Geralyn Arango Deely (21:33): Yeah. Terri Brewer (21:35): Oh. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:36): And someone's monitoring it for him, so he's trying it out, and then he's trying it out on his own. And you know, I think sometimes, you know, we know that we're nervous about "Can he, will he, should he?" And then it's like- Terri Brewer (21:47): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:48): ... oh, son of a gun. He did. (laughs) And- Terri Brewer (21:51): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:51): We have to give people... I l- The phrase, "Dignity of risk," comes to mind. It's to say, you know what- Terri Brewer (21:55): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:55): Yeah. Terri Brewer (22:00): It, it is exactly, and it, you, you- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:00): Yeah. Terri Brewer (22:00): ... have to learn how to back up, just- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:05): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (22:05): ... back up. I was watching... One, one of my spying times, I was watching him clean up the kitchen, and I'm like, "Oh, that's so precious. He's cleaning up the kitchen." He had his dustpan, and he emptied the trash, and I'm like, "Oh, that's so precious." And he's picking up the trash, and he's, you know- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:26): Yeah. Terri Brewer (22:26): ... making sure it's secure. And then, he lifts it out the trashcan and he starts walking towards the door. And I'm like, "Well, where's he going?" Geralyn Arango Deely (22:34): (laughs) Terri Brewer (22:34): So I switched to the other camera, and he's- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:34): (laughs) Terri Brewer (22:34): ... walking outside. (laughs) I said- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:34): (laughs) Terri Brewer (22:35): ... "He's going outside by himself. How can he be going outside by hims- Oh my god." So I'm freaking out, getting ready to put my shoes on, grab the car keys, and drive over, and then he comes back in, and he puts a fresh bag- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:57): (laughs) Terri Brewer (22:57): ... in. I said... Terri- Geralyn Arango Deely (23:00): Like he's supposed to do. Terri Brewer (23:02): That's right. Empty the trash. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:05): Yeah. Terri Brewer (23:05): Take it to the dumpster. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:07): Uh-huh. Oh my goodness. Terri Brewer (23:07): He didn't do any of that while he was home. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:11): (laughs) Terri Brewer (23:13): But again, h- he had other people doing it. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:15): I, I was gonna say, and who was doing it f- You know, who was doing it? Terri Brewer (23:17): It was either me or Bill. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:19): Yeah, and he was... He, he could do it. Did we believe he could do it? Did we figure, "Oh, it's faster if I just do it"? Like, all those things that you just do, and the person doesn't get a chance to try, and then- Terri Brewer (23:33): Uh- Geralyn Arango Deely (23:33): ... they do it, and they did it. (laughs) Terri Brewer (23:37): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:37): And, and you're like son of a gun. I, I- Terri Brewer (23:39): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:40): ... love those moments, and then I go, "Did I r-" You know, like, "Why didn't I think he could do this?" But he did. He, what m- what else really matters is that he did do it, you know? Terri Brewer (23:51): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:51): When, how he learned it, whether he was watching you all these years, and just knew that that's how it was done, or he picked up something from the Families CCAN, or both. He's doing it. Terri Brewer (24:02): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:03): You know? Terri Brewer (24:05): Ex- exactly. And he's just showing such independence that I'm overwhelmed. I'm- Geralyn Arango Deely (24:12): Oh, I love it. Terri Brewer (24:12): I'm- Geralyn Arango Deely (24:12): I love it. Terri Brewer (24:13): I'm just overwhelmed. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:14): Okay. Okay. Well- Terri Brewer (24:15): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:16): Um, are there still some challenges, though, in the middle of all of this anyway? Are you... Uh, have you noticed anything that's been like, "Oh, we have to work on that"? Because- Terri Brewer (24:26): Um- Geralyn Arango Deely (24:26): ... listeners need to know that it's, you know, uh- Terri Brewer (24:28): In, in- Geralyn Arango Deely (24:28): ... it's- Terri Brewer (24:28): ... the very beg- In the very beginning, oh, what he's, what he's... In the very beginning, it was mainly really keeping everything in his apartment clean, you know? The sweeping, and the wiping the crumbs, and, and all of this. And one thing that he definitely had to learn was to do his own laundry. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:56): Okay. Terri Brewer (24:57): I mean, I just did it. I, I didn't think anything about it. I just did it, and it was a challenge. It was, it was, you know, slow-going. I got one of those board things to help him with his t-shirts and whatnot. Geralyn Arango Deely (25:16): Yeah. (laughs) Terri Brewer (25:16): So one thing that h- one of his staff said is they go to the laundromat, and he folds everything while he's there, so that he can just put his stuff away and- Geralyn Arango Deely (25:32): Yeah. Terri Brewer (25:33): ... and the staff is like, you know, "The longer you take, the longer we're gonna be here." Geralyn Arango Deely (25:38): Yeah. Terri Brewer (25:38): So that is, that is starting to move, you know, along. But it was definitely the laundry was a struggle. Keeping things, um, as tidy as they should be, really making sure that he's, you know, really washing his dishes. Um, they got a timer. I'm not... And I'm not even exactly sure how, how that timer works, but to make sure that he is soaking, or washing, or whatever, an appropriate amount of time. So it's the things that- Geralyn Arango Deely (26:15): Yeah. Terri Brewer (26:15): ... came up that would, w- brought attention to what needed to, to be done. And we're still working on his food, because they're trying... He has two different staff, and so they're... They try different things with him and whatnot, but if he doesn't like it, he'll push it in the back of the refrigerator instead of just saying, "No, I don't, I don't, I don't want it." Geralyn Arango Deely (26:48): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (26:49): So we've had some spoiled food, because he just pushes it in the back. I mean, was this... I'm talking about what I'm saying now and talking about is from today. Mind you, this has been a year that he's, he's been, you know, on his own, and actually, Sund- Sunday is the only day that he does not have staff. And that's because I pick him... I come over. We, we go to church. We have a, we have a day. And that's- Geralyn Arango Deely (27:25): Okay. Terri Brewer (27:26): And, you know, Sunday is our day. But every- Geralyn Arango Deely (27:29): Okay. Terri Brewer (27:29): ... other day, he has, he has staff. And we've also found that, um, you know, staff can get sick too. Geralyn Arango Deely (27:40): Yeah. Terri Brewer (27:40): So the backup plan would be me or my husband. Geralyn Arango Deely (27:45): Yeah. Terri Brewer (27:46): And, um, so, "William, you okay?" "I'm okay." "Um, do you want..." "No, I'm okay." He doesn't want us to come over. He's, he loves being alone. Terri Brewer (27:58): ... Geralyn Arango Deely (28:00): All right. Well... Terri Brewer (28:00): So we don't have to go. But again, would I feel that confident if I didn't see a c- if I didn't have a camera? Probably not. I would be over there, just making sure, but- Geralyn Arango Deely (28:13): Why not let the technology help, you know? Terri Brewer (28:16): It's- Geralyn Arango Deely (28:17): There's no- there's nothing wrong with that. Terri Brewer (28:19): It's, it's wonderful. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:21): Yeah. Terri Brewer (28:21): It's, it's absolutely... Geralyn Arango Deely (28:21): Yeah. Terri Brewer (28:21): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:23): Yeah. Terri Brewer (28:23): It's absolutely wonderful. And, and I think another challenge is where he's picking up a little weight. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:31): Yeah. Terri Brewer (28:31): And I think- Geralyn Arango Deely (28:32): That's a Nick, that, Nick happened, that's what happened with Nick too. It's like, "Ooh, if I were here, you wouldn't be eating this much food." Terri Brewer (28:37): And so I don't necess- I think I am part to blame also because on Sunday, you know, we go, we eat, and then, you know, he has to go to the store. And I went to the s- we went to the store this past Sunday and I was like, "You know, William, you really, you really gotta watch what you're eating." And I walked away and I, when I got up to the counter, he had some corn dogs. I said, "Where, William," he had his juice. He had... I said, he could get some cookie, you know, the cookies would be fine, you know, but then he comes in with some corn dogs. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:17): (laughs) Terri Brewer (29:18): Like, okay, I get it, I get it. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:19): But you know what? Um, when you think about all these things that he's doing, um, and thinking about anybody moving out on their own for the first time, I, I always hear a certain amount of, yeah, nobody gets it perfectly right the first time. Terri Brewer (29:39): No. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:40): Nobody has unspoiled, everything in the fridge is totally unspoiled. I mean, one of my jobs, I think when I go back to, to Nick's on the weekend is, um, I'll go there on Sunday nights. Terri Brewer (29:54): Uh-huh. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:54): And I think one of my jobs is to remove the science projects from the fridge. Terri Brewer (29:56): (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (29:57): You know? It's like, what is that? Ew, get that out of there. You know, that, that's what two guys do is, like, leave too much food around. And- Terri Brewer (30:04): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (30:05): ... it, that whole idea of kind of old school pre-this and pre-that, that we're gonna be doing things to pre so that you can move out, it's like, yeah, our guys need more support and more practice, but if you're waiting for anybody, who among us got our first apartment and had it all together? You know, why do we hold others to that standard, our guys to that standard? Terri Brewer (30:32): Absolutely. Geralyn Arango Deely (30:33): Yeah. Terri Brewer (30:33): And because I am, um, I'm working with a friend, she's doing future planning for her son, and there's, like, a whole list of, of questions that you go through with this. And I'm thinking, I did none of that. It was- Geralyn Arango Deely (30:52): Uh-huh. Terri Brewer (30:54): ... you learn by things happening. Of course, you set things up- Geralyn Arango Deely (30:59): Yeah. Terri Brewer (30:59): ... you know, the best you can, but there is no way that you can check off all of the boxes to have it perfect. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:08): No. Terri Brewer (31:08): You just can't. And if you think that you're gonna do that, you're going to drive yourself crazy. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:14): Yeah. Terri Brewer (31:14): And the person is not going to be able to, to live or move or do anything because I think that that would be you stopping them because, "Oh, we didn't do this. Oh, he can't do that. Oh, he's gotta learn this." No. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:31): Yeah. Terri Brewer (31:32): No. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:33): Yeah. I, I, it makes me think of my, my second apartment where I left hard-boiled eggs on the stove and went to temple to go to class. Terri Brewer (31:41): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:41): And somewhere in the day, I called my neighbor and just said, "Can you check? I think I might've left eggs on the stove." Terri Brewer (31:49): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:50): And they went in and there were eggs all over the ceiling. Terri Brewer (31:53): (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (31:54): And it was like, you know what? That's what happens, you know? Anybody doing that, you know, that first time, it's like, it's, it's okay. But I mean, yes, our guys are gonna need more support. Our guys are gonna need maybe more structure. And each, each person, there's no one way that this is done. Terri Brewer (32:13): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:13): What this is, is sharing is William's story. I listen and I can hear some of Nick and then some of things that, wow, Nick needs more support than William or whatever. And it's like- Terri Brewer (32:22): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:23): ... what it, I think really is, is about giving that person that dignity of risk and saying, you know- Terri Brewer (32:29): It- Geralyn Arango Deely (32:31): ... let's try. Terri Brewer (32:32): That, that's exactly it. It's the dignity of risk. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:37): Yeah. Terri Brewer (32:38): It's, it might not work, but it might. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:44): Yeah. Terri Brewer (32:44): We don't, we don't know. Or- Geralyn Arango Deely (32:48): Yeah. Terri Brewer (32:48): Hmm. Well, if we do it this way, maybe that'll help you. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:51): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (32:52): But to just not try or put up, you know, so many obstacles for the, for the person- Geralyn Arango Deely (33:01): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (33:02): ... it's... Geralyn Arango Deely (33:03): Or to really say, "Oh, I could never do that." You know, to really lower our expectations for our loved one without giving them a chance to try. Terri Brewer (33:13): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:13): Especially if they express the desire to try to live on their own. Terri Brewer (33:19): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:20): I kept hearing about an apartment, you know, Nick was like, "I want an apartment, I want an apartment." And it was like, "You know what? I, I have to listen to that." Terri Brewer (33:26): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:27): And, you know, and then, then what? But he was saying this to us. Terri Brewer (33:31): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:32): You know, and it was like, "Well, maybe we could try it." And he's been, they, he and his housemate there and with lots of support, it's been three, four years. Terri Brewer (33:44): Wow, okay. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:45): Yeah. Terri Brewer (33:45): Okay. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:46): And he's heavily supported because, um, I mean, Nick has a seizure disorder, so we have to have somebody there at night, we just do at this point. Terri Brewer (33:54): Okay. Geralyn Arango Deely (33:54): Um, but he works at Lowe's 16 hours a week, he has staffing during the day, he has, I mean, things that we found in the waiver. You know, he's getting supports, like, he has a personal trainer, you know? (laughs) So just, and we, and, and I learn from other parents, and I learn from my supports coordinator who's wonderful, and I learn from Bradley, who's, you know, such a great resource. Terri Brewer (34:18): Uh-huh. Geralyn Arango Deely (34:18): You know, I think when you put those questions out there, and when our loved ones put that chi- out there- Terri Brewer (34:23): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (34:23): ... to say, like, "Can I get an apartment?" Terri Brewer (34:26): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (34:26): You know, it's like, well, let's see. If you, if, as, as we sort of finish here, what advice might you share with our listeners who are trying to support a loved one who has said, "I would like, uh, my, a place of my own"? Terri Brewer (34:44): I, I th- I think that, and I described even now, sometimes I have these knee-jerk reactions when, and it (laughs), it didn't even occur to me. I wasn't even really thinking when William is out and he's doing an event, and he's with staff when he's doing an event. Geralyn Arango Deely (35:02): Uh-huh. Terri Brewer (35:02): Well, staff might have to use the restroom- Geralyn Arango Deely (35:06): Okay. Terri Brewer (35:06): ... and leave William there by himself. And I'm like, "You left him by himself?" And he's like, "Well, yeah. And he saw three things while I wasn't here." I'm like, "Oh, okay." I think number one, one thing is we have to get past our, our knee-jerk reactions too- Geralyn Arango Deely (35:28): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (35:28): ... because as parents, as mom, as dad, we're gonna have those things. And I told the staff, just because I, I have a knee-jerk reaction, it is not a no. And I feel like staff have to have the abil- first of all, you have to trust them, and they have to have the ability to have candid conversations with you. I feel like individuals have to have time away from their parent, or whoever their li... They, they have to, whether it's W- William always went to camp, I think respite was a, (laughs) was just a wonderful thing, and he loved it. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:11): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (36:11): And it showed that he could be away from us. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:16): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (36:17): I think that that was, that was really big, and I think just listening, and nobody says that you have to... Lord knows we didn't do everything all at once, and sometimes you just have to do stuff scared. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:35): (laughs) I like that. I like that. Yeah, sometimes you have to do stuff scared, because that's... And it, it's just such... It's the human experience, you know? Terri Brewer (36:44): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:44): And then it's okay. Terri Brewer (36:45): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:45): And if, you know, I just... I think to myself, "Well, if, if this doesn't work, we'll try something else." You know? Terri Brewer (36:53): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (36:53): We don't give up, we don't, we, we try to learn from, from whatever mistakes or whatever, but we don't give up. We just keep trying. Terri Brewer (37:02): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (37:03): And let me ask you this, how has this move changed your, your life, your marriage, your fam- other family, the rest of the family, the professional life? How has it changed for you? Terri Brewer (37:18): Well, you know, it's, number one, I didn't ever necessarily see us being empty-nesters. Geralyn Arango Deely (37:28): Okay. Terri Brewer (37:30): So that was a new experience. And, you know, Bill and I were sometimes, like, b- bumping into one another, like, you know- Geralyn Arango Deely (37:43): (laughs) Terri Brewer (37:44): ... uh, oh, uh, it's different. I think, you know, and sometimes it gets because it's, it's just the two of us, it, it can be a little quiet for, not that William was loud, but just knowing that there was a third person in the house. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:04): Yeah. Terri Brewer (38:04): So we had- Geralyn Arango Deely (38:04): They have changed. Terri Brewer (38:04): ... we have overnight visits with the granddaughter, so she helps and, and William's room has now become her room. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:11): Okay. Terri Brewer (38:14): But, um, it's allowed me... I'm now... This was William's room. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:21): Okay. Terri Brewer (38:22): This was where he worked and stuff. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:24): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (38:24): He had a bedroom, but this was his workroom. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:27): Okay. Terri Brewer (38:27): And I have, you know, I keep... This was the stuff he allowed me to, you know, he didn't take with him, but it just allows me more time to center myself. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:43): Okay. Terri Brewer (38:43): And sometimes, you know, as... I think a lot. I think about everything a lot all the time. Geralyn Arango Deely (38:51): Okay. Terri Brewer (38:52): Should we do this? Should we do that? You know, oh, William. Oh, I wonder what William's gonna do. Oh, you... Uh, there's certain things that are off my plate. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:01): Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Terri Brewer (39:02): And that's kind of liberating. I mean, I have to ca- I have to call staff and find out what the heck is William doing? I see something on the calendar. What? I called, I saw something on the calendar, on his calendar that I thought I should be involved with. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:20): Uh-huh. Terri Brewer (39:20): And they're like, "Oh, no, no, that's a work thing." Geralyn Arango Deely (39:20): No. (laughs) Terri Brewer (39:20): No. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:20): (laughs) Terri Brewer (39:20): Oh. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:20): Yeah, it's, it- Terri Brewer (39:20): Okay. (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (39:25): It's a big shift because we've had to be, we've had to kind of be par- ha- being in that role way past the age where a typical child would be really separating. We're not separating, they are not separating, we're not separating. It's just, it's different. Terri Brewer (39:43): It is different. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:45): And so, was it individuation? Um, and so it is a sh- a bit of m- I, I think a bit of a shock to the system to be like, "Oh, I don't have to go?" (laughs) Terri Brewer (39:54): Ex- exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (39:58): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (39:59): You know, where it's, uh, I don't have to support this, you know- Geralyn Arango Deely (40:04): Uh-huh. Terri Brewer (40:04): ... because also as mom and dad, he's a 40-year-old man who doesn't need mommy and daddy- Geralyn Arango Deely (40:13): Yeah. Terri Brewer (40:13): ... up under him. Geralyn Arango Deely (40:15): Yeah. Yeah. Terri Brewer (40:16): Nor- Geralyn Arango Deely (40:16): Like most 40-year-old men don't want mom and dad (laughs)- Terri Brewer (40:20): Exactly. Nor does- Geralyn Arango Deely (40:22): ... you come by when you... Not when, you know, you're not, that's not your job. Terri Brewer (40:25): Nor does he want it and he has made it clear. Geralyn Arango Deely (40:28): (laughs) Terri Brewer (40:29): On those Sundays when I go over and I'm, you know, of course, I still gotta check and do, you know, a little bit of this, a little bit of that and his, when he's had enough, which is maybe five minutes, "See you next Sunday." Geralyn Arango Deely (40:45): "Bye." (laughs) Terri Brewer (40:46): Which means it's time for you to leave, all right? Geralyn Arango Deely (40:48): (laughs) Terri Brewer (40:51): I asked him, they went and William got a couch. So they were telling, I was over for the ISP and they were saying, "Oh, we're gonna put it right here," you know, showing me where they're gonna... I said, "Oh, William, you're gonna have a couch. Can I come over and stay? Can I spend the night?" Geralyn Arango Deely (41:13): (laughs) Terri Brewer (41:14): He didn't look at me, he didn't acknowledge me, dead silence, so I took that as a no. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:22): I think that is a no. (laughs) Don't mean to be rude, mom. I'm just gonna like, make like I didn't hear you. Terri Brewer (41:28): Yeah. But it's, it's amazing to me the independence and it's almost like a, a blossoming flower just- Geralyn Arango Deely (41:37): Right. Terri Brewer (41:38): ... doing, doing things. And I'm sitting back in awe, just like- Geralyn Arango Deely (41:43): And, but you're, you're blossoming too. Terri Brewer (41:44): Just like ready to burst. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:44): You're getting that time. Terri Brewer (41:45): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:47): You're getting that time that you didn't really have before that you had to kind of steal, um, and you're getting time to nurture yourself. Terri Brewer (41:55): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:56): And we do forget that, how important that is. Terri Brewer (41:58): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:59): You know, that Terri Brewer (41:59): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (41:59): ... Geralyn Arango Deely (42:00): ... bring such, you're bringing a better Teri to th- to this- Terri Brewer (42:02): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:03): ... and every situation, hopefully, you know? Terri Brewer (42:05): Pick- picking up things that I haven't done in, oh God, years. Like, I really like crafting. I really, you know, I used to crochet. I used to do, you know, plastic ... I did a lot of different things, but it just fell away. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:22): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (42:22): And I'm finding that now, ooh, you know, I can, I can do this. I have the time now to do it. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:30): Yeah. Enjoy it. Enjoy. It's- Terri Brewer (42:34): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:34): ... thank you for sharing this. Are there resources that you might recommend to a family who's kind of getting ready to try to support a loved one moving on? Terri Brewer (42:44): I, I would suggest, of course, their supports coordinator. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:49): Yeah. Terri Brewer (42:50): Aga- again- Geralyn Arango Deely (42:51): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (42:52): ... you know, some are better than others. Geralyn Arango Deely (42:53): Yeah, yeah. Terri Brewer (42:53): I, I would ask ... Because also what this home tenancy, uh, will do, you don't have to be ready, that waiver support, you don't have to be ready to move out tomorrow. Geralyn Arango Deely (43:06): [inaudible 00:43:08]- Terri Brewer (43:07): They can talk you through things. They can help you with how would you be, um, a good tenant? You know, what, what you need, what you need to do, what resources that you have. And also, you know, I am finding that your health insurance can be very helpful. Because William has United, United Health, and h- he can pay, like, certain u- um, utilities through that. Geralyn Arango Deely (43:42): Really? Terri Brewer (43:43): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (43:44): Interesting. Okay. Terri Brewer (43:45): Yes. You can do over-the-counter things, and, you know, have it shipped to you, or you could, you know, like your gas or, or electric. I would suggest looking, I would absolutely suggest getting on a housing list, and not to worry that it's, it's gonna open up the next day. Geralyn Arango Deely (44:08): (laughs) [inaudible 00:44:10]- Terri Brewer (44:10): Because it's not ... That's the first thing that I, I said, "Oh, it's gonna be my luck. I put his name down and something happens." Well, nothing happened. Geralyn Arango Deely (44:19): No. (laughs) Terri Brewer (44:21): I would suggest utilizing respite for an individual to see, you know, how they react. I mean, the very first time William went to camp and I just knew that he had missed, missed me, and he was in the pool. And I just realized when I walked up there, I'm like, "Oh my goodness, I'm gonna get all wet because he's gonna leap up-" Geralyn Arango Deely (44:45): (laughs). Terri Brewer (44:46): ... "and he's gonna run to me. " Geralyn Arango Deely (44:46): (laughs) Terri Brewer (44:48): Well, let me tell you, he popped up out the pool, saw me, and there was such disgust on his face that I was there that I said, "Oh, okay." Next summer- Geralyn Arango Deely (45:00): (laughs). Terri Brewer (45:01): ... he went to two camps. (laughs) So, yeah. But- Geralyn Arango Deely (45:06): Yeah. Th- that makes me think of the first year that Nick went to a sleep away camp. Um, I walked him through it. We did all the things to get ready, get ready, get ready. And that camp, um, they ... Every year, they would come, all the counselors would come running down the hill, and he would barely say goodbye to us, okay? He would just turn and leave. And it was like, " All right." (45:31): But the very first summer where I had pl- you know, we practiced, and we did all the things, and we were ready, and all that, and I was like, "Okay, bye." And my husband burst into tears. (laughs) And it was like, "I guess I should've prepared him too." Terri Brewer (45:48): (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (45:49): (laughs) He was like, "My boy is leaving." And I was like, "Just for a week, you know?" I said, "I was ready. Nick was ready." Terri Brewer (45:56): Uh-huh. He wasn't- Geralyn Arango Deely (45:57): Daddy was not. (laughs) So yeah, it's, it's ... But, but our guys can do it, you know? Terri Brewer (46:03): And I, I think they- Geralyn Arango Deely (46:04): And you kinda get used to the fact that, well, I guess I'll take the indifference as a sign of the fact that they feel that's safe with us, that they know- Terri Brewer (46:14): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (46:14): ... that we're always there. Terri Brewer (46:17): Y- yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (46:17): Yeah. Terri Brewer (46:17): Yes, absolutely. Geralyn Arango Deely (46:17): Yeah. Terri Brewer (46:20): And 'cause, uh, we got to the point where we said, "We're just gonna slow down and push all your stuff out the car and let them take you." Geralyn Arango Deely (46:26): (laughs) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Terri Brewer (46:28): 'Cause once he was there, he was gone. Geralyn Arango Deely (46:30): ( laughs) That's, that's what we had too. That's what we had too. Terri Brewer (46:35): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (46:35): So what's next, Terri? What's next? Terri Brewer (46:38): Oh my goodness. I am, I just want to continue to see William thrive, because one of the things that was always my biggest fear is that something would ... And I always use the, the word disappear with, with William, not- Geralyn Arango Deely (46:59): Uh-huh. Terri Brewer (46:59): ... die, but we would disappear, and he would still be in this house, and it would traumatize him. Geralyn Arango Deely (47:09): Yeah. Terri Brewer (47:09): He wouldn't know. He wouldn't have the ... So I am confident now, not that I plan on going anywhere, that if something were to happen to us this, today, that not only would William be able to survive, but he has, um, support in place- Geralyn Arango Deely (47:33): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (47:33): ... that would be there for him to help him navigate. And I think that that is important that you have people, whether it's paid or not at this point, that will help your loved one navigate whatever it is. Geralyn Arango Deely (47:53): Yeah. And I always think, maybe better we do all this now while I'm here- Terri Brewer (47:59): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:00): ... to sort of, you know, kind of, kinda shepherd him through in my way as I - Terri Brewer (48:05): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:05): ... try to let go and let go and let go, rather than, he's, he's 28, Nick is 28, um, then something happened and it's like, wait, where did mom go? Dad's a ... My, my husband passed away, um, in 2014, and it's like, what a, what a trauma to have everything disappear, and then you're, like, moved out of the place, you know? Terri Brewer (48:29): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:31): Like, yikes. Terri Brewer (48:31): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:31): And so- Terri Brewer (48:34): And that's what I didn't- Geralyn Arango Deely (48:35): Yeah. Terri Brewer (48:36): ... I did not- Geralyn Arango Deely (48:38): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (48:38): ... want. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:39): Yeah. Terri Brewer (48:40): And it, he was clear that he didn't wanna stay here. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:43): Yeah. Terri Brewer (48:43): He was cl- he was clear at that. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:45): Very good. Terri Brewer (48:46): And that would've been just too much. Geralyn Arango Deely (48:47): Yeah. Terri Brewer (48:53): So, you know, I, right now, I'm just taking it, I'm taking it moment by moment and enjoying, and, you know, seeing what Bill and, Bill and I can do and, you know, stay outta- Geralyn Arango Deely (49:05): Yeah. Terri Brewer (49:05): ... trouble, 'cause we're, we're confident that, you know, like I said, it was two years ago that was the first time we ever went away. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:14): Mm-hmm. Mm. Terri Brewer (49:14): Just me and Bill, two years ago. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:17): Yeah, yeah. Terri Brewer (49:18): And now we know we can. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:19): And you can. Yeah. And you, and it's not ... It's something to just really embrace, and know that it is a day at a time, and a week at a time, and a month at a time. It's like grab it when you can- Terri Brewer (49:31): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:32): ... and, and really enjoy it, because we, we do all work really hard to, to support our loved ones- Terri Brewer (49:42): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:42): ... that we have to take care of ourselves, and- Terri Brewer (49:45): Absolutely. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:45): ... it's okay, you know, it's okay to hop on a plane, or get on a cruise, or something like that. Terri Brewer (49:52): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:52): It's, it's okay. Terri Brewer (49:54): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:54): They can, they'll, let them surprise us, and they, and they kinda do, you know? Terri Brewer (49:58): And, and not have to cook. Geralyn Arango Deely (49:58): (laughs). Terri Brewer (50:04): That's a, that's a b- 'cause my husband can cook. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:06): Mm-hmm. Terri Brewer (50:06): They ... So, but I would cook, because that's what I, that's what I did. But look, I could eat a bowl of cereal and be happy. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:18): Uh-huh. (laughs) Terri Brewer (50:18): And you know what? I do sometimes. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:21): There you go. Because, because you have earned it. (laughs). Terri Brewer (50:23): (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (50:24): The right to pour the Cheerios instead of finding, like, thawing out the chicken, you know? So enjoy, enjoy and- Terri Brewer (50:33): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:34): ... and really give yourself a big hug for all the effort. You know, we're never fully outta the woods, but we're at least not th- like, deep in the thick of it, and- Terri Brewer (50:45): Exactly. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:45): ... it is a work in progress, you know? And they're gonna be- Terri Brewer (50:49): It is. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:50): ... i- and it is. And it's like, I guess the thing to say is, like, "Yeah, this is the ... It is a work in progress, and it's okay." Terri Brewer (50:55): Mm-hmm. Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:56): Yeah. [inaudible 00:50:58]- Terri Brewer (50:57): Yeah, we're not done yet. Geralyn Arango Deely (50:59): But we're in motion, and that's the good stuff. Terri Brewer (51:02): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (51:02): Did I forget anything? What have I forgotten? Anything you wanna add? Terri Brewer (51:09): No. No. Geralyn Arango Deely (51:09): Okay. Terri Brewer (51:10): I'm- Geralyn Arango Deely (51:11): Okay. Okay. Terri Brewer (51:13): It's just how, um, incredibly proud I am of William. Geralyn Arango Deely (51:18): You should be. Terri Brewer (51:19): And, you know- Geralyn Arango Deely (51:22): Yeah. Terri Brewer (51:23): ... what he has accomplished and continues to accomplish. I'm- Geralyn Arango Deely (51:28): Yeah, all those beautiful paintings behind you. Um, let me see if I can ... I took a couple of snaps of, of our Zoom here, maybe I can put that up, or put up one of his pictures to let people know that- Terri Brewer (51:39): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (51:39): ... an episode is coming. Terri Brewer (51:41): And you know what? You see this, this one painting with the, it looks like three people over here. Geralyn Arango Deely (51:46): Yes. Yeah. Terri Brewer (51:47): That, my, my mother used to, before she passed, and, you know, William had just started painting. And she would have, like, these posts going, "Oh, see if he can paint this. See if he can do it." Geralyn Arango Deely (51:56): (laughs). Terri Brewer (52:00): I'm like, "Oh, precious. Oh, mom, you're just so precious." Those are the three wise men. Geralyn Arango Deely (52:04): Aw. Terri Brewer (52:05): And it was a young lady that use- that worked with him at the time. So I was like, "Hey, William, can you do, like, uh, th- you know, Nana would really like this picture. Can you do this?" And it was three stick people, all right? The child comes in and he does that. Geralyn Arango Deely (52:28): Boom. Terri Brewer (52:29): Boom. I'm like, o- okay, "So I- clearly I'm not your muse." (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (52:35): (laughs) And you know what? Let's, let's be okay with somebody else being even a part-time muse, you know? Terri Brewer (52:44): I, and I am- Geralyn Arango Deely (52:46): Yeah. Terri Brewer (52:46): ... tickled pink. Geralyn Arango Deely (52:47): Yeah. And he has people in his life supporting him, people in- Terri Brewer (52:50): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (52:50): ... his life loving him. That's, that's, what else does anybody need, you know? Terri Brewer (52:56): We all need that. Geralyn Arango Deely (52:57): We all need it. Terri Brewer (52:57): It's just that i- i- it's so focused on, you know, like our, our guys, and, you know, "Oh, maybe they can, oh, maybe they can't, oh," you know, and you have to, you know, set up this step by step chart and if- Geralyn Arango Deely (53:05): (Laughs) Yeah. Terri Brewer (53:05): ... you can't. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:13): Yeah. Yeah. Or if you can, you're gonna wean off of it, or you're gonna, you know- Terri Brewer (53:17): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:17): ... you're gonna figure out how that fits in, and doesn't become a crutch. Terri Brewer (53:21): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:22): And so it's something that is there for them if they need it, and let them- Terri Brewer (53:26): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:26): ... let them surprise us, you know? Terri Brewer (53:28): Right. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:29): And so- Terri Brewer (53:30): Absolutely. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:30): Yeah. And so I'm so glad that you made time to talk with us today. I love this little follow-up visit- Terri Brewer (53:36): (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (53:36): ... to share your story, and William's story, and give us some thoughts and wisdom for, for our journey. So thank you. Terri Brewer (53:44): Oh, you're welcome. I enjoyed it. Geralyn Arango Deely (53:46): Yay. Terri Brewer (53:46): (laughs) Geralyn Arango Deely (53:47): And listeners, thank you for spending time with Terri and me on today's episode on Our Parallel Paths. So I hope that you will like and follow or subscribe to our podcast, that you'll share with family and friends. And I really hope you'll return to listen and learn from more stories of people like you and me, and our loved one with a disability, on our parallel paths. 'Cause you know what, you're not alone. I would love to hear from you, so feel free to comment, to rate the podcast, to share, again, to share, and to join our Facebook group, and I'll see you next time. (54:24): This podcast is produced by Networks for Training and Development.