Geralyn Arango Deely (00:13): So, hi, family member. The mister and me are gonna talk about what we've learned about a little known Social Security provision called the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, and how it may be of help to your family too. The Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit may provide you with more financial resources to care for your adult child. Geralyn Arango Deely (00:36): Hello, and welcome to episode five of season six of Our Parallel Paths: A Future for My Loved One with a Disability... And for Me. My name is Gerry, Dr. Geralyn Arango Deely, and this podcast is about just what the title says, the parallel paths of family members and their loved ones with intellectual disabilities. I'm a parent myself, and I always have questions. So let's nurture and support ourselves as we nurture and support our loved ones with intellectual disabilities, because there's more than one path, more than one future to talk about, and that's why we're here. Geralyn Arango Deely (01:14): Before we begin today, a quick reminder, our discussion today is for educational and informational purposes only. You may already know that Social Security rules can be complex, and individual circumstances can affect eligibility and benefit amounts. So this episode is not a substitute for individualized financial, tax, or legal advice, and not a substitute for your own research. So, before we begin, please consider consulting the appropriate professional and verify your situation directly with the Social Security Administration. Geralyn Arango Deely (01:55): We're going to focus on families with a loved one with a disability that occurred before the age of 22. You know though there are other circumstances in which this topic is relevant. We're just not gonna cover them here. Geralyn Arango Deely (02:08): So, a warm welcome to my husband, Michael Deely, who is not a tax planner, not a financial or legal advisor, just a really smart, retired IT guy and information hound who asked big questions about Social Security and asked big questions h- to Social Security as he considered when to retire. And then he went all out to find answers and put the pieces together. Would you say that's true, Michael? (laughs) Michael Deely (02:40): That is, that is correct (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (02:41): (laughs) Okay, good. Well, since this information, this in- this episode's for informational purposes, we, Michael and I felt like our story, our journey was just a little too niche to talk about, but the topic of the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit is not. Because although our situation was a little unusual, partly because, you know, Nick initially receiving his late father's Social Security percentage and other reasons that we may touch on as we talk, this benefit can be available to families supporting a loved one with a disability that occurred before the age of 22, and I'm gonna keep saying that, but it is not something that pops up like much of anywhere. And that was the genius of Michael, 'cause... And Michael and I will share some resources that hopefully you'll find helpful in the show notes, so you can dive deeper if you feel like this benefit could apply to you too. And truly, if there's interest, I will continue to explore this issue in future episodes. So let me know on Facebook or Instagram or with a podcast like or comment for this episode. Geralyn Arango Deely (03:52): Now, in the interest of making this topic broader, I, I des- designed a little family case study for the podcast. And so I hope that this story will be generic enough for you to see the potential of exploring the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit for your situation. So meet Brad and Janet and their kids, Scott, Magenta and Eddie. I'll just say that that's a little reference to The Rocky Horror Show because Tim Curry just passed. Scott, Brad and Janet's disabled adult child is 26. And the twins, Eddie and Magenta, are 29. Brad has rec- decided to retire at 62 and he's considering starting to collect Social Security, which is a very personal decision on the timing there because of the age band of doing that. Geralyn Arango Deely (04:47): Janet worked part-time up until the last 15 years because she left the workforce to give more attention to Scott. Scott has a moderate intellectual disability, as well as physical and health issues. And Scott has collected SSI since the age of 18. So as per the legal definition, Scott's disability began before the age of 22. So the question for the podcast is, could a Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit help this family? Geralyn Arango Deely (05:26): So I'm gonna ask Michael a whole bunch of questions and we'll just keep going and you may hear a little bit about our story, but mostly we're gonna refer to Brad and Janet, Scott, Magenta, and Eddie. So you ready, Michael? Michael Deely (05:38): Yes, let's do it. Geralyn Arango Deely (05:39): A- all right. Michael Deely (05:39): (laughing). Geralyn Arango Deely (05:41): So for listeners who have never heard of the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, I'm gonna borrow something from grad school, what would be your 10-second elevator pitch? In a nutshell, what is it? Michael Deely (05:53): Yeah, so the, um, the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, not to be confused with spousal benefits, which are separate and distinct, uh, is what the, they call an auxiliary benefit. And that is, means a, uh, another person can get benefits on a, um, record owners, that is the retired person's, um, record. So, um, that is an extra benefit that's there. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:22): Okay. And who is this benefit designed to help? Michael Deely (06:27): So you have, in theory, uh, the way this benefit is set up is if you have to leave the workforce to take care of an adult disabled child, uh, and the father is retired and collecting benefits, uh, his wife, his spouse, is e- eligible for an additional benefit. And, uh, this is called Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit. Geralyn Arango Deely (06:50): All right. And so, but how is that benefit, this Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, how is it different from a traditional Social Security Spousal Benefit? Michael Deely (07:00): Yeah, so the, uh, spousal benefit is generally 50% of, uh, the retired persons, you know, the husbands in this, in our scenario here, benefits, assuming that he files at 67, he would, she would get an amount equivalent to around 50%. Now he's, uh, filing early, so her re- benefit would be reduced. But what is so important about this benefit is that for the Child-in-Care spousal, Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit- Geralyn Arango Deely (07:30): It's a mouthful. Michael Deely (07:31): It's a mouthful. What's called the deeming rule does not apply. And that is what is so, um, powerful about this special benefit is that when the deeming rule does not apply, it gives Janet options throughout her life to change her benefits from, uh, an auxiliary benefit from her husband to her own benefit based on her own work record. Geralyn Arango Deely (07:54): Okay. So now, while you, (laughs) in our conversations with other families, no one has heard of a Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit. Um, I had not heard of it, not that I'm the authority, but why is a benefit like this so often overlooked by families? And I can think of reason one, it's not really available easily, but why does this benefit get overlooked? Michael Deely (08:19): So it is an obscure benefit. I've even encountered people, uh, Social Security who, who had to look it up themselves- Geralyn Arango Deely (08:27): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (08:27): ... they never heard of it (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (08:28): (laughs) Yeah. Michael Deely (08:28): Uh- Geralyn Arango Deely (08:28): I remember that. Michael Deely (08:30): I remember that conversation. That was a little odd. And so it is an obscure benefit. Now, it's not a, a fantastically large benefit, that's, that's clear. And if Janet is working, her excess earnings would also impact her, that benefit as well. So this is a benefit for, for the other, for the second spouse who's at home, out of the workforce, taking care of dis- of, uh, the adult disabled child. Geralyn Arango Deely (08:58): Okay. Well, let's talk about that eligibility. So what are the basic requirements for a spouse to qualify? Michael Deely (09:06): Sure. So here the, the father is thinking of retiring at 62. Step number one is that a record holder, in this case, the father, neither, needs to be either deceased, disabled, or file for retirement benefits with Social Security Administration. So that's step one, uh, that must, must be fulfilled. Step two is that, uh, Janet, as well as the, um, Scott, are eligible for both, for auxiliary benefits under, uh, the father's record. And so in a lot of scenarios, both should file at the same time for disabled adult child for Scott, and then for spousal, uh, child-in-care benefit for Janet. And so now you'll have three essential, uh, recipients of Social Security benefits on, uh, Scott's, uh, no, excuse me, on the father's one record. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:05): Okay. Now, does, now this is just, this is really, I think this one speaks to itself, but does the spouse have to be caring for a biological child or can the child be adopted or otherwise eligible? Michael Deely (10:19): Yeah, so the rules are f- fairly liberal in, in how, uh, a child is defined in our, not to be too personal, but in our case, I'm, we're dealing, um, in my case, uh, a stepson and a stepson definition by the Social Security Administration is pretty broad. So that's who, that's, that's actually very generous on, on there. Geralyn Arango Deely (10:43): Yeah, that was good news for us, you know? And let's see, does the working spouse's age matter when applying for the benefit? Michael Deely (10:52): No. So that's also what's very interesting about this benefit is that although, um, the father is retiring and finally at 62, he will have reduced benefits for his own record. Geralyn Arango Deely (11:04): Right. Michael Deely (11:05): You know? So that's important. But each, uh, Janet and Scott will get 50% each of the parent, of the father's PIA, primary insurance amount. So they are not penalized because he filed, he filed before 67. Geralyn Arango Deely (11:22): Okay. I mean, again, that's one of those really personal decisions that- Michael Deely (11:25): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (11:25): ... why would you take early retirement? And there's a million people with different opinions on, yeah, retire early, retire, like, get it all, get it, whatever. And so it is a very personal decision. And so, you know, we're gonna assume that Brad made the decision because it is best for him and best for his family. Uh, does the working spouse, does Brad need to be receiving Social Security retirement or disability benefits at this point? Michael Deely (11:52): Yes. So he has to be, um, awarded a benefit, either retirement or dis- disability benefit. And, um, of course, Janet and Scott can get a benefit if, um, if Brad is deceased as well. Also, uh, another caveat just wanna throw in there as well is that, uh, all the benefits combined are subject to a household maximum. Geralyn Arango Deely (12:15): Okay. Well, well- Michael Deely (12:16): And so that's another thing to be a little cognizant of. It's a pretty high number, 175% of, of, you know, Brad's, you know, Bra- Brad's record. So, um, considering that he's filing early, plus, uh, Janet and, um, Scott together, it, it, they're gonna be close to that ho- household maximum. Geralyn Arango Deely (12:38): Okay. Okay. 'Cause I was just gonna ask you that (laughs). Um, how do they calculate the amount of the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit? So it's gonna be based on this base number of Brad's Social Security award, and how do they calculate how much the child-in-care part? Michael Deely (12:55): Yeah. So let's, uh, just to try to keep the numbers high level here, and let's pretend, um, Brad has what's called a PIA of $4,000. That is a primary insurance amount of $4,000. That's what he would receive a month at age 67. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:11): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (13:12): Now, he's filing early, so he's gonna get a reduction. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:16): Right. Michael Deely (13:16): So he, let's say his benefit's gonna be $3,000 a month starting at age 62. Since his PIA is $4,000, Janet can receive 50% of that $4,000 amount. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:28): Okay. Michael Deely (13:30): So that's $2,000. Plus, Scott can receive 50% of that primary insurance amount, that $4,000. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:36): Okay. Michael Deely (13:38): So you can see if Brad's getting three, Janet's getting four, or excuse me, uh, Bradley's getting two. (laughs) I got, I got the name messed up. Geralyn Arango Deely (13:48): (laughs). Michael Deely (13:49): So, uh, Janet's getting 2,000 a month, Scott's getting $2,000 a month, and of course, the father, uh, um, Bradley's getting $3,000 a month, uh, a reduced benefit. So, um, that's a pretty sizable benefit that three people as a household are, are gonna be receiving. Um, again, subject to the family or the household maximum. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:13): Okay. Michael Deely (14:13): So there might be a reduced amount there. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:14): Okay. That doesn't sound like a bad thing. It's, you know, something to look for. Michael Deely (14:18): Mm. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:19): Uh, can the spouse, the one that's not retiring, can they receive the benefit while they're also working? Michael Deely (14:26): Yes. So, um, the, Janet, uh, can continue to work, uh- Geralyn Arango Deely (14:32): Even though she's not in this case, but... Michael Deely (14:34): Correct. In theory, she could work subject to the earnings limitation. So her benefit would get reduced if she exceeds around $1,700 a month in earnings at a job. Geralyn Arango Deely (14:47): Okay. Michael Deely (14:47): Um, the, the big caveat is if Brad continues to work part-time after filing, if he exceeds the monthly limitation of $1,700 a month, all three of their benefits will be suspended. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:03): Oh. Michael Deely (15:03): Yeah, that's a, that's an ooh. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:05): Ooh, (laughs). Michael Deely (15:06): So, yeah, so- Geralyn Arango Deely (15:06): I'll give it another ooh (laughs). Michael Deely (15:06): Yeah. So Bradley needs to, and Janet, of course, need to make the decision is, uh, all right, I'm retiring. Um, I do wanna work part-time just to make a couple extra bucks. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:21): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (15:21): But you need to be really cognizant of that monthly excess earnings limitation. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:25): Okay. Michael Deely (15:26): Mm. Geralyn Arango Deely (15:26): Okay. Well, that's real, because, I mean, I think that was one, something we encountered as well, was like, oh, you're really getting close. And so, and then somebody, like Janet was, left the workforce, uh, in f- 15 years ago, but she was working beforehand. So she would have her own s- Social Security retirement benefit if this wasn't all happening, and she still have it? What happens if the spouse has a retirement benefit? Michael Deely (15:55): Well, that's, uh, that's what's so kind of special about the, uh, this option, is that- Geralyn Arango Deely (16:01): Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit. Michael Deely (16:02): Yep. Geralyn Arango Deely (16:02): (laughs). Michael Deely (16:03): Is that the deeming rule does not apply. So um, if, uh, Janet has a decent record of, on her own, even though she's been out of the workforce for a while, for her early years she had some good earnings, she has the option later in life to switch from ch- Child-in-Care Spousal Benefits to her own retirement, um, benefit. And that's what's the real benefit of this, of this, of this Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, is that the deeming rule does not apply. She is free to switch later in life, and that's important. And right now, that's not true of just, uh, retirement benefits and spousals, um, spousal benefits. Anyone born after 1959, the deem, this deeming rule applies. And not, hopefully not to get too much into the weeds. Geralyn Arango Deely (16:57): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (16:57): Um, but this is a powerful benefit that gives you a lot of flexibility to the second parent to switch their benefits later in life. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:04): Okay. That's cool. That's, that, all right. So I think I know the answer to this, but let me ask it for the sake of information. Can somebody (laughs), let's get greedy, can somebody receive both their own benefit and the spousal benefit? Michael Deely (17:18): Uh, no. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:19): Yeah. Michael Deely (17:19): So, um, you know, so you can continue with the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit, um, and, and theoretically in Janet's case, until she turns 70, let's say, and now she can get, uh, basically 125% of her PIA, whatever that is. And of course, she'll do the math at the time and see which benefit is higher, but you can't combine. You gotta pick A or B. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:45): Okay. Michael Deely (17:46): But, um, but you can switch later in life- Geralyn Arango Deely (17:49): Right. Michael Deely (17:50): ... or not switch depending on which one is, is a bigger benefit. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:53): Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Especially depending on what the person was doing in those years before the 15. Michael Deely (17:57): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (17:58): All right. So I'm, I'm back to sort of the, the exoticness of this, seeming exoticness of this benefit and why there might be some misunderstandings about it. And w- what are some of, I think, the biggest misconceptions that you've heard? I know I'm listening to the things you're listening to when we're sitting there, and I think, oh, but that, is that so? And what are some of the misconceptions that you have heard about the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit? Michael Deely (18:27): Yeah. So the one misconception I hear over and over again is, like, everyone's convinced that the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefits has the same rules as spousal benefits. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:37): Mm. Michael Deely (18:38): And they are two separate and distinct things. And, and what's important is the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefits, this nasty little deeming rule- Geralyn Arango Deely (18:46): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (18:47): ... does not apply to those benefits. And so people confuse the two benefits and, and, yeah, and they have the same name. They say the same noun (laughs), you know, adjective and it's spousal. Geralyn Arango Deely (18:56): I wonder why it's confusing. Michael Deely (18:57): Yeah, I wonder why it's confusing, exactly (laughs). But they are different benefits. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:00): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (19:01): And so people are, uh, really reticent to file for this, thinking, oh, I'm gonna really hurt myself- Geralyn Arango Deely (19:07): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (19:07): ... and I'm not gonna be able to file for my own benefit on my own record later in life. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:11): Okay. Michael Deely (19:12): And that's what people are, you know, are most nervous about. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:15): Okay. And you know what else I feel like in our experience, and this is not to slam anybody, but Social Security wasn't always clear with an answer for us when we were asking about it, depending on who you were talking to on the phone, not to slam Social Security. Love you guys. Michael Deely (19:32): (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (19:33): Um, thoughts? Michael Deely (19:35): Yeah. So, um, Social Security, yes, I've had, I've been in some good encounters with Social Security before. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:42): Yes. Michael Deely (19:42): And I've had some very strange (laughing) ones where people are really not aware of these, uh, auxiliary benefits, and so that's a shame. Um, but what's important about Social Security is they're not, and they're never gonna tell you what to do. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:56): True. Michael Deely (19:56): They'll answer your questions. Geralyn Arango Deely (19:58): True. Michael Deely (19:59): And if you don't know the topic you're asking about, uh, y- y- you, I mean, they're not gonna volunteer it. And so- Geralyn Arango Deely (20:05): That's an important point, is that you gotta come in with the questions. Michael Deely (20:09): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:10): Yeah. They're not counselors. They are informants of- Michael Deely (20:13): Correct. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:14): ... answering questions. Michael Deely (20:15): Correct. So they're, and they're gonna be very reticent to give you advice. They just wanna process whatever application you show up with, and that's their job is that- Geralyn Arango Deely (20:26): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (20:26): ... um, you know, because they, I can understand why they're reticent to, to give out advice or counsel, you know? Geralyn Arango Deely (20:33): Yeah. Michael Deely (20:33): But they will answer questions. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:34): Yes. Michael Deely (20:34): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:36): Yeah. And they, they, yeah, they can't kind of generalize because it's just not the job. Michael Deely (20:41): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (20:42): And that's why we have to come in with the questions that we need answered, because they're not gonna provide necessarily, not to diss because it's just the truth. And anyway, is it tr- no, 62. Brad is retiring at 62. Could he retire earlier than that and, and get, get the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit going for his family? Michael Deely (21:05): So for, so there's three re- re- ways to get this benefit started is, uh, for Brad, he needs, either needs to be deceased. And so- Geralyn Arango Deely (21:15): Um. Michael Deely (21:15): ... uh, uh, yes, unpleasant. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:16): He's alive. Michael Deely (21:17): Yep. But that's how we're, um, this benefit could start for Janet and, uh, for Scott. Um, um, he could be disabled and- Geralyn Arango Deely (21:26): Okay. Michael Deely (21:26): ... that, that can happen. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:27): Okay. Michael Deely (21:28): Um, say in his 50s and his disability benefits start. And so, uh, then Janet and Scott can be eligible for auxiliary benefits. And of course, the, you know, the last one is that, uh, he can retire and get retirement benefits, and the earliest he can do that is at age 62. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:46): Okay. All right. So it's, it's not a cut and dry question. It really depends on a s- your situation. Michael Deely (21:51): Yes. Geralyn Arango Deely (21:52): Yeah. Michael Deely (21:52): It, it is a very personalized, um, decision. You know, do you, you know, the other concern is that, um, or even opportunity is that for Scott, a disabled adult child, um, he gets to move from SSI to DAC benefits. Geralyn Arango Deely (22:10): Disabled adult child. Michael Deely (22:11): Correct. Geralyn Arango Deely (22:12): Right. Michael Deely (22:13): Which includes Medicare eligibility after 24 months. Geralyn Arango Deely (22:18): Okay. Michael Deely (22:19): Assuming he has no credits of his own and, and whatnot. And so that needs to be part of Brad's and, um, Janet's strategy is, all right, if Brad is providing healthcare through an employer and he's gonna lose that when he retires and stops working, um, what is the filing strategy going to be to try to maximize, um, uh, or to make, make available healthcare? Geralyn Arango Deely (22:44): Mm. Michael Deely (22:44): And, um- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:45): Big, big one. Michael Deely (22:46): It's a big one. I mean, normally, you know, without- Geralyn Arango Deely (22:48): (laughs). Michael Deely (22:49): ... any children, that a couple have to figure that out when they start retiring before 65. And so, they'll have a third person they have to worry about, uh, on how to get, um, insurance. But, um, but with a DAC benefit, it's very nice, you get Medicare after 24 months. Um, and so therefore, um, Scott- Geralyn Arango Deely (23:09): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (23:10): ... can, can get access to Medicare and, and then they can also get additional supplemental insurance as well to cover the gaps of Medicare. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:19): Okay. Okay. So when do you think a family should start looking into the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit? When should they start composing the questions for Social Security- Michael Deely (23:27): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:28): ... to get the answers that they need? Michael Deely (23:30): Yeah. So, you know, this is all based on, you know, the, a retirement event. So obviously, Brad and Janet need to take care of themselves first, make sure their plan for the two of them is appropriate. When should Brad retire? And, and then also then consider what's best for Scott after they consider what's best for themselves. And so part of this is gonna be driven by health insurance strategy. Geralyn Arango Deely (23:56): Okay. Michael Deely (23:57): As well as the, the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefits. So, so yeah, so I like to think, I start thinking about this in the late 50s and understand what's, what's, what are the impacts of, of, of retiring at at 62. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:15): Okay. Okay. Are, are there situations where claiming the benefit could affect other Social Security benefits? Michael Deely (24:20): Claiming spousal child-in-care, um, benefits? No. For Janet, you know, again, the deeming rule does not apply, so Janet will be free to switch to her own retirement benefit later in life. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:33): Right. Michael Deely (24:35): You know, the only, uh, the only other caveats, and so, I worry about is, uh, if Janet becomes disabled. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:41): Okay. Michael Deely (24:41): So that is something also to think about. It doesn't, you know, impact what happens to Scott, per se, because he still received benefits under Brad's record. Geralyn Arango Deely (24:50): Okay. Michael Deely (24:51): But, um, we knew, we also need to think about, uh, Janet. Ideally, Janet should work a little part-time and continue to earn credits under Social Security Administration. Geralyn Arango Deely (25:03): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (25:03): Which will mean she remains eligible for disability w- if she ever needs it. Geralyn Arango Deely (25:09): Okay. Wow. All right. So let's, let's bring it to the, a conclusion here because we've decided that a family is saying, you know what? We gotta look into this. Where do they start? What, what documentation should a family have ready when they contact Social Security? 'Cause let's assume that, like, yeah, I'm curious now, and I need to be able to provide this, this, this, and this so they will be able to get me going in the right direction. What do they need? Michael Deely (25:43): Yeah, so we're gonna have three benefits. Brad is somewhat straightforward. He's gonna get retirement benefits, uh, based on his own record. Next domino to fall is to get DAC benefits for Scott. And switching from SSI to DAC, you basically have to refile because is it- Geralyn Arango Deely (26:04): Disabled adult child. Michael Deely (26:05): Thank you. Geralyn Arango Deely (26:06): Yeah. Michael Deely (26:07): Yeah. Okay, so you have to refile completely, um, which is annoying, but- Geralyn Arango Deely (26:11): Yeah. Michael Deely (26:12): ... is understandable because it is a separate and distinct benefit from SSI. And so you need to have those things where you have the childhood, um, diagnoses of intellectual disability, something- Geralyn Arango Deely (26:24): Mm. Michael Deely (26:25): ... a piece of paper that's 25 years old, you need- Geralyn Arango Deely (26:26): Yeah, (laughs). Michael Deely (26:27): ... you know, things like that as part of the application. And so, uh, the DAC benefit needs to be approved, and then Janet's Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit can be approved. And if you file all at the same time, the dominoes might fall at different times, but they will back pay. Geralyn Arango Deely (26:47): That, that's good to know. Michael Deely (26:48): That is good. Geralyn Arango Deely (26:48): That is good to know. Okay. Michael Deely (26:51): Yeah. And, um, so yeah, the big decisions are, are, you know, when to retire, how much part-time work you can do in order to, you know, and still keep benefits, as well as having a health insurance strategy. Geralyn Arango Deely (27:03): Okay. Now, we're talking about an amount of money that's gonna be determined based on someone's retirement, Social Security earnings, and so, you know, it makes me curious because then there's all these numbers that I'm not really sure of. So, where do people go to verify their eligibility and benefit amount? Michael Deely (27:23): Yeah. So, there's a couple, uh, resources. The, the basic one is hopefully all three, Janet, Brad, and, uh, Scott have a, an account with the Social Security Administration. Geralyn Arango Deely (27:36): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (27:36): SSA.gov. Um- Geralyn Arango Deely (27:38): And if you don't get one. Michael Deely (27:39): If you don't get one, it's very useful. Geralyn Arango Deely (27:42): (laughs) Yeah. Michael Deely (27:42): 'Cause what will be important is, uh, if you wanna crunch numbers, is you wanna look at, uh, Brad, Brad's PIA, primary insurance amount. And so, uh, with that information, you will then know how much, um, Scott and Janet are eligible to get for their benefits. And again, they get 50% each of that PIA. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:03): Okay. Michael Deely (28:04): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:04): And they're gonna get on the phone with Social Security, okay? Because they wanna make a decision. What are some of, what are some questions that they should ask at this point? 'Cause we're not sure what we're gonna do. So let's ask Social Security. Michael Deely (28:22): Yeah. I mean, Social Security's only gonna ask, answer, you know, factual questions. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:25): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (28:27): Uh, again, they're gonna avoid giving you advice or counsel. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:29): And that's kinda well they should in some ways. Michael Deely (28:32): Kinda well, they should. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:32): Yeah. Michael Deely (28:32): And I know it's frustrating for some, but, um, um, so, yeah, so it's basically confirm eligibility for, uh, Janet as well as for, um, uh, Scott. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:45): Okay. Michael Deely (28:45): Uh, don't be surprised if the first person you talk to has no idea what you're talking about. Geralyn Arango Deely (28:51): Yeah. Michael Deely (28:52): Um- Geralyn Arango Deely (28:53): It see- again, it seems like a rather exotic but really potentially helpful resource. Michael Deely (28:57): Yeah. And so, um, you wanna see what, uh, if you, if you meet eligibility, and then particularly around for Scott, ask about, um, DAC eligibility as well as eligibility for Medicare. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:10): So what's... I know you, you've been sort of really enthused about this. You are out there kind of talking about it when you get the chance to. Um, what is the one thing that you wish every parent or caregiver knew about this Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit? Michael Deely (29:30): So what's so powerful about this benefit is, again, the deeming rule does not apply. Um, right now, for anyone born after 1959, you get one decision and one bite at the apple. You either pick spousal benefits or you pick your own retirement benefits. Um, but with this, you get to switch later in life, and that's very powerful for Janet. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:53): Okay. Okay. So, and as we wrap up- Michael Deely (29:56): Mm-hmm. Geralyn Arango Deely (29:56): ... 'cause you did it- Michael Deely (29:58): (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (29:58): ... and, uh, you did good. Michael Deely (29:58): Yeah. Geralyn Arango Deely (30:00): Um, if someone is sitting home right now going, or walking, taking a walk, um, or in their car, thinking, I mean, I might, our family might qualify for this, but I had no idea this benefit existed, what things would you tell them? What two things, three things you would, would you tell them to do next or first? Michael Deely (30:22): Yeah, so you have to sort of map out in your head and on paper, uh, a retirement date f- of one of the parents. Geralyn Arango Deely (30:29): Okay. Michael Deely (30:30): Does, uh, the other parent work and earn income? Um, does s- the child, Scott, did they also work and have income? And so those things matter because you might not be eligible for the benefit- Geralyn Arango Deely (30:43): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (30:43): ... if you exceed the, um, allowed amount every month. Um, don't let the tail wag the dog. You want to have Scott and everyone else working, don't leave your jobs to, to, you know, um, we want to do something very positive for Scott- Geralyn Arango Deely (31:01): Mm-hmm. Michael Deely (31:01): ... and have a very, uh, you know, fulfilled life and wor- working. And so you have to decide, is that, you know, if Scott is not really working and earning money, then this is, uh, a benefit both he and Janet may wanna pursue. Geralyn Arango Deely (31:16): Okay. Well, Michael, thanks- Michael Deely (31:21): (laughs). Geralyn Arango Deely (31:21): ... for sharing this, your story, your, the things that you learned as you asked the questions. Again, um, you know, listeners, let me know in the comments or social media if you'd like me to explore the topic further. Um, because what m- Michael and I were talking about today really was for informational purposes only, and I'm really grateful to Michael for taking the time to, to share this, which he is actually quite passionate about, sharing with families anyway. Um, and he has shared some resources in the show notes that you can click on and get links to some videos, um, links to some articles that might help you to kinda further discern if, if you're at all interested, if the Child-in-Care Spousal Benefit is something to explore. Michael Deely (32:10): Yeah, and I'll have a link to a ca- online calculator, which is safe, everyone can click on it. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:14): Okay. Michael Deely (32:14): And it's, uh, it's very nice calculator. You can include a disabled adult child in the calculus or not- Geralyn Arango Deely (32:21): Okay. Michael Deely (32:21): ... and see what the difference is. And, um, and then you can make, make a rational decision. Geralyn Arango Deely (32:27): Cool. Very cool. Thank you. And listeners, thank you so much for spending time with me on today's episode of Our Parallel Paths. And I hope that you will like and follow, subscribe to our podcast. I hope that you'll share it with family and friends, and I really hope you'll return to listen and learn from more stories of people like you and me and our loved one with a disability on Our Parallel Paths. You are not alone. I would love to hear from you, so feel free to comment, to rate the podcast, um, to join our Facebook group and Instagram, which I'm trying to do better on. We're, we're there too. I'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by Networks for Training and Development.